Sparta_Automation Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 I have a Vendo Vue that recently stopped working. The robotic arm will not move up and down (Y-Axis), and fails Y Vending testing in diagnostics....The machine works fine testing the X-Axis. I have tried unplugging the motor just to ensure a good connection, but think the motor might be bad. Any suggestions on how to test to verify? I hate to spend $50 + shipping...although I am leaning towards the motor being bad. Thanks Travis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mission vending Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 My first guess is that's it not the hand. More than likely a broken wire in the harness in the section that hangs on the left side that goes up and down with the elevator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparta_Automation Posted October 26, 2012 Author Share Posted October 26, 2012 I have not checked that yet......I will check that in the am. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mission vending Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 I have not checked that yet......I will check that in the am. Thanks You can also call Vendo and talk their service dept and find out which color wire you need to focus on as there are several wires running through the protective plastic chain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technivend Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 Besides looking at the PDC harness for a broken wire check that the elevator is level too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparta_Automation Posted October 27, 2012 Author Share Posted October 27, 2012 I have checked the wire....at least visual and it looks fine. This machine is not used that much....i mean REALLY NOT THAT MUCH. It does maybe 10 vends a week so, I would be surprised if it's a cracked wire.....but you never know. I will call Vendo for clarification on which wire to check. Travis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mission vending Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 I have checked the wire....at least visual and it looks fine. This machine is not used that much....i mean REALLY NOT THAT MUCH. It does maybe 10 vends a week so, I would be surprised if it's a cracked wire.....but you never know. I will call Vendo for clarification on which wire to check. Travis My money is still on a broken wire, have had to replace several wire harness sets. Do you have a volt meter to check continuity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparta_Automation Posted October 27, 2012 Author Share Posted October 27, 2012 I do, I was an Electronic Technician in the Navy....and I have tools and ability to check. I will look at it again in the morning. Travis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparta_Automation Posted March 17, 2013 Author Share Posted March 17, 2013 Ok, I am back working on this problem again. manual is mostly worthless on troubleshooting. Here are the two errors I am getting under diagnostics PDC Move Error Move-Y Motor Jam PDC Error TC-Failure I have tried replacing the Y motor, but did not make a difference. Looking at the hand, there are two LED lights in the bottom of the unit. The one on the left is a constant red, the one on the right, starts out as green, then begins flashing orange/amber. I will be checking continuity of the wires on the right hand side tonight or early tomorrow AM.....any other suggestions? Thanks Travis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelermj Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Like Mission said earlier the wire harness that goes up to the arm breaks often in these machines. Sometimes it's hard to see if it is broken because of the chain around the wires. An easy way to find if you have a broken wire is just by pulling lightly on the wires one at a time right at the top of the chain, if one of the wires pulls out more than a half an inch, then you now the wire is most likely broken. Then you can either splice the wires back together or replace the harness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mission vending Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 One other thing to check, look at the plastic ladder that the motor climbs on for missing rungs. As the plastic ages it will get brittle and a rung will break off and messes up the elevator, had this happen twice. Also check that the elevator bar is level One other thing to check, look at the plastic ladder that the motor climbs on for missing rungs. As the plastic ages it will get brittle and a rung will break off and messes up the elevator when its climbing, had this happen twice. Also check that the elevator bar is level Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparta_Automation Posted March 18, 2013 Author Share Posted March 18, 2013 So, I have checked the wires in the chain....and continuity wise, they are all good. I have also looked at the plastic ladder on each side and it appears fine. The thing is....is that the motor doesn't even attempt to turn, if it was a binding issue....I would have expected the motor to at least "twitch". I have also checked voltage on the back of the Large Y-Motor, and when told to do a Y-Motor test, I have 0 volts....not even a quick spike. Is the voltage coming acress the cables that is in the chain on the right hand side, or does it come up from the hand assembly??? any ideas? Thanks Travis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparta_Automation Posted March 19, 2013 Author Share Posted March 19, 2013 Well, I called Vendo Tech Support, and they were useless..... What I did do is verified the ribbon cable between the board that the motor connects to, and the board that interfaces with the hand assembly, these cables tested good. Verified full operation of EVERYTHING else, and the X, Z and Clamp motor all works fine, just the Y-Motor. Asked Tech support where the voltage comes from and he confirmed that it comes from the VMC through the cables in the chain, through the ribbon cables to the hand assembly and back to the motor. He says, if the other motors work...then the voltage is correct....but had no where else to tell me to look. I have already tested the Y-Motor, by putting in a new one, but maybe should test it again. If I was to apply voltage directly to the motor, it should turn....this would at least allow me to verify motor operations. Any thoughts on this? Thanks Travis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZVendor Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Sparta, Make sure you apply DC voltage to the motor to test it, AC will damage it. With all the suggestions here and all the testing you have done, assuming you didn't miss a broken wire, your main logic board may be the culprit. I don't have experience with this machine, but from the info you got from Vendo as to the way the power gets to the Y motor, it sounds like the board is a good bet. Is there a possibility your board is still under factory warranty? Most manufacturers warrant their boards for 5 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparta_Automation Posted March 19, 2013 Author Share Posted March 19, 2013 I wish it was under warranty, but it was a second-hand ebay purchase that did fine for the 2 years that I have had it. I am leaning towards the main board....looking back at what I did, I checked for voltage across the motor, and there was none....so the problem is before that. I will have to say...this is the most frustrating problem that I have had yet! But I refuse to give up and I hate to lose! Drives my wife nuts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZVendor Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Keep plugging away at it and don't give up. It's too expensive a machine to put out to pasture. I'm really surprised that Vendo tech support wasn't more helpful. If you call them again, ask if you can speak to one of the engineers that worked on the design of the Vue. That's what I do when any tech support is less than helpful. In looking at the wiring diagrams of the machine I can see that there are three power sources from the VMC to the "fixed" Y motor interface board, 34V MDB, +24VDC and -24VDC. In addition, this harness from the VMC includes three MDB communication lines. These 7 lines pass through the "fixed" interface board, go through the "traveling" interface board and into the PDC. The PDC, in turn, sends data and Y motor DC power back through the "traveling" board to the "fixed" board and out to the Y motor. I do see one wire that could cause a problem with either the Y motor or the PDC and it is the MDB Common Ground. This comes from the VMC with the other MDB and 24V wires into the "fixed" interface board at pin 4 of the 7 pin connector on the "fixed" board. It then splits and goes to pin 1 on the 4 pin connector going to the Y motor from the "fixed" board and also through the "traveling" board to the PDC. This is a logic ground and if it's bad none of these components will function. However, it appears that if your clamp motor, Z motor or X motors work this is not the problem as all three of these motors are also controlled by the PDC. If you want to test it, this wire is brown and if you follow the source harness from the "fixed" board back toward the VMC you will find it in the MDB plug. You can test it at either the MDB end of the harness for +34VDC between pins 4 & 5 or between pins 4 & 5 on the 7 pin connector on the "fixed" interface board. If you don't have the voltage then the common ground could be missing. If you do have power for the clamp, Z motor and X motors then you might have a bad "fixed" board, "traveling" board or PDC as these boards are all common to the Y motor. If these three motors aren't working and because MDB is involved with the communication, you should consider a problem with the coin mech or bill validator as a possiblility. I say this because MDB is a daisy-chained system and any one device in the system can wreak havoc with the others. I see this in USI soda machines for example where you can't tell which component is bad, but either the MDB coin mech or validator takes the board out. If you have another Vue in your inventory, pick a slow day or end of day and pull the board out of one that works and try it in the bad machine. Do this before you order any new/exchange boards so you can rule out or confirm the board as the problem. Good luck with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reel Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 I thought these machines were only being used for scrap metal! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparta_Automation Posted March 19, 2013 Author Share Posted March 19, 2013 Thanks AZ.....you gave me a lot to look at and test. I was frustrated yesterday looking at the diagram from the manual...the one I had only showed basic block and connectors, but was void of any useful information such as what each pin did on the board. I happen to be searching the Internet late last night and found a full diagram with the needed info, and will be troubleshooting more today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelermj Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Depending on the age of your Vendo, check and see if the x rail is grounded. This copper tape kit is something they were doing years ago, in newer machines there is a ground wire in the harness that is then connected to the x rail. They also had some wiring issues with their Y motors and have an encoder crossover to fix the problem, in the attached document Vendo Install 1 it will show you how the wires should be and whether or not you have need an encoder crossover. I will also attach the instructions I was given on how to ground the x rail if it is not grounded. In the attached photo you can see a picture you can see a picture of the encoder crossover and also the ground wire connected to the rail. I don't know if this will help you or not, but it's worth a shot. Vendo Install 1.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparta_Automation Posted March 19, 2013 Author Share Posted March 19, 2013 Mine is an older one with the Tape.....and it's not very sticky anymore. I have thought about just putting a connector on it, drilling a hold in the rail and screwing it directly to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparta_Automation Posted March 20, 2013 Author Share Posted March 20, 2013 I do see one wire that could cause a problem with either the Y motor or the PDC and it is the MDB Common Ground. This comes from the VMC with the other MDB and 24V wires into the "fixed" interface board at pin 4 of the 7 pin connector on the "fixed" board. It then splits and goes to pin 1 on the 4 pin connector going to the Y motor from the "fixed" board and also through the "traveling" board to the PDC. This is a logic ground and if it's bad none of these components will function. However, it appears that if your clamp motor, Z motor or X motors work this is not the problem as all three of these motors are also controlled by the PDC. If you want to test it, this wire is brown and if you follow the source harness from the "fixed" board back toward the VMC you will find it in the MDB plug. You can test it at either the MDB end of the harness for +34VDC between pins 4 & 5 or between pins 4 & 5 on the 7 pin connector on the "fixed" interface board. If you don't have the voltage then the common ground could be missing. If you do have power for the clamp, Z motor and X motors then you might have a bad "fixed" board, "traveling" board or PDC as these boards are all common to the Y motor. Today I verified grounds, fixed the grounding wire from X-Rail and checked voltages. I have 24V coming from the VMC all the way through to the PDC...as well as the 34 V, but no power on pins 4 and 6 (Y-Motor PWR) on the traveling board (Directly from the PDC). I verified all cables for continuity and I can move the motor in test for X and Z as well as the clamp. with these results....I REALLY believe it's the PDC Board. this is my only Vue 40, so verifying in another unit is not an option. I am going to verify and doublecheck a few more minor items...and then order a replacement PDC board. Thanks for all of the help! Travis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZVendor Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Today I verified grounds, fixed the grounding wire from X-Rail and checked voltages. I have 24V coming from the VMC all the way through to the PDC...as well as the 34 V, but no power on pins 4 and 6 (Y-Motor PWR) on the traveling board (Directly from the PDC). I verified all cables for continuity and I can move the motor in test for X and Z as well as the clamp. with these results....I REALLY believe it's the PDC Board. this is my only Vue 40, so verifying in another unit is not an option. I am going to verify and doublecheck a few more minor items...and then order a replacement PDC board. Thanks for all of the help! Travis I think your're right and I know I'm probably asking about things you already did, but just in case: Did you have both +24VDC and -24VDC sources as measured to the Common Ground? Did you check for 5VDC sensor voltage out of the PDC at J2, pin 2 and through the Traveling board to Fixed board output to Y motor on pin 4, again to Common Ground (maybe only when trying to move Y motor). I don't know what the voltage of the Y motor is - hopefully there's a label on it - but I would think it's 24V and the +24 moves the motor one way and the -24 moves it the other way. These +/- voltages are the Y motor encoder data 1 and Y motor encoder data 2, I would think. They are sent to the motor from the Fixed board 4 pin connector pins 2 and 3. Then they go back through the ribbon cable, through the Traveling board to J2 on the PDC. Data 1 is the Brown wire at J2, pin 3. Data 2 is a Red wire going into J2, but Vendo forgot to label it on the wiring diagram. It will be either pin 4 or pin 5 - the only 2 unlabled J2 pins on diagram. Measure the voltage between each pin and common ground when trying to drive the Y motor one direction and then the other. I'm guessing you won't see any voltage since the Y motor doesn't move, but you should cover all the bases. Once you have all the diagnosis done then you can ask Vendo if the PDC board is the culprit. Again, I would ask to speak to an engineer. I also believe it's a bad PDC, but I'd feel better if you can find more evidence that it's bad so you can ask about said evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparta_Automation Posted March 29, 2013 Author Share Posted March 29, 2013 Well, I ordered the PDC Board from Vendors Exchange, popped the new board in, and it worked like a champ. Thanks AZVendor for all of your help! Travis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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