PinkJazzX Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 This comes a surprise, but it looks like Crane Co will be acquiring MEI/Conlux for $820M: http://www.marketwatch.com/story/crane-co-to-buy-payment-systems-firm-mei-at-820m-2012-12-21 I wonder what does this mean for the CashCode/Currenza division of Crane. MEI is the global market leader in bill and coin acceptors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reel Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 I heard this a while ago, the way its going Cranes going to own everything related to vending and we will all end up paying more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Repairman Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Yes. they own Dixie/Narco, AP, Crane National, GPL and now MEI/CONLUX . Anybody say MONOPOLY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruff84 Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Are dixie/narco machines still even made? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwi Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 Yes. they own Dixie/Narco, AP, Crane National, GPL and now MEI/CONLUX . Anybody say MONOPOLY. Don't forget to add.. Streamware, Telequip, Money Controls, Cash Code & National Rejectors to the list. I think if it was a game of Monopoly & I was playing against them I would have given up already! I guess we're lucky we still have CoinCo/Royal, Vendo, AMS & USI to keep them honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moondog Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 I heard this a while ago, the way its going Cranes going to own everything related to vending and we will all end up paying more! It definitely does not bode well. The prices go up and the quality goes down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reel Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 True Moondog, although i must say when it comes to combination vending machines i think the best on the market are AMS and USI, i know i have purchased 10 new ons in the past year. here it seems that most locations want one machine that vends everything and as a result combination machines are by far the best sellers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwi Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 True Moondog, although i must say when it comes to combination vending machines i think the best on the market are AMS and USI, i know i have purchased 10 new ons in the past year. here it seems that most locations want one machine that vends everything and as a result combination machines are by far the best sellers. Hi Ron, i totally agree with you when it comes to sites wanting just one machine as we have the same requests here. Combination machines don't seem to be as popular in the states as they are in NZ & Oz but i guess the AMS & USI combo's are fine for our environments. Are you using the High Capacity Can Units in your combination machines? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinkJazzX Posted January 13, 2013 Author Share Posted January 13, 2013 Are dixie/narco machines still even made? Yep, D-N is still made, however in recent years they have been focusing R&D on their glass front machines, rather than their conventional stack machines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reel Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Hi Kiwi, Yes nearly all AMS Combos i buy i have them fitted with the high capacity can drawer at the bottom, i think its essential . For the 4 wide they have to be made up and cut to fit by the supplier as i understand AMS dont offer them as an acessory on the 4 wides. As you know the USI VT5000 and VT3000 comes with a can drawer as standard. I like both these machines but i think the AMS has the edge as it has an extra tray can and as such you can provide a wider variety of drinks, however, i think both machines are excellent and are worth the extra money over the cheaper chinese combos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncho Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 My biggest concern with this is what will happen to Conlux. I started getting conlux MCM5 coin mechs and CV1000 bill acceptor and they are amazing. You cannot tell the difference from the MEI VN2500 and the Conlux CV1000, other then cost. We saved over $2000 in bill and coin acceptors on a big shipment a few weeks ago for the same product packaged in a different name. Also, I know a few MEI and Conlux distributors that are very upset with this move. They feel that they have spent the last few years building up their reputation and are afraid Crane will come in with lower quality, as they did in the machine sector for AP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwi Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 My biggest concern with this is what will happen to Conlux. I started getting conlux MCM5 coin mechs and CV1000 bill acceptor and they are amazing. You cannot tell the difference from the MEI VN2500 and the Conlux CV1000, other then cost. We saved over $2000 in bill and coin acceptors on a big shipment a few weeks ago for the same product packaged in a different name. Also, I know a few MEI and Conlux distributors that are very upset with this move. They feel that they have spent the last few years building up their reputation and are afraid Crane will come in with lower quality, as they did in the machine sector for AP. Hadn't thought about it from this angle but I would hope nothing would change with the quality of the Conlux line of products. I would definitely say Wittern will no longer be the Master Distributor for Conlux in America once Crane take over. I hope Conlux does not go in the same direction as AP did as I don't even remember the last time someone told me that they brought a new AP machine & its like they have kind of disappeared after being one of the market leaders. It would be a shame to see this happen to Conlux especially after they won the Gold Award for coin mechs at last years NAMA Oneshow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chocolate Bar W / Nuts Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Hey there Ron, Kiwi, does the high capacity can tray work flawlessly? Any nuances with it? I haven't had the pleasure of owning one yet. Also too, a little off topic here, but what kind of route vehicles do you guys use down under? Thxs!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwi Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Hey there Ron, Kiwi, does the high capacity can tray work flawlessly? Any nuances with it? I haven't had the pleasure of owning one yet. Also too, a little off topic here, but what kind of route vehicles do you guys use down under? Thxs!! Hi Chocolate Bar W / Nuts, I only have experience with the USI VT5000 high capacity can tray but would highly recommend them. The only problem for us is we get them in the australian version which is setup for there 375ml cans when our standard size cans are the same as the USA 355ml. Because of this we lose one selection in the high capacity can tray which is a bit stupid but the benefits far outway the negatives for us as we also bank frozen machine to our VT5000. On the vehicle side of things most vendors use vans apart from coke who use slide-a-side trucks. I am looking at upgrading to a multi-purpose slide-a-side truck with tail-lift this year which will also be used for machine movements. We will still use a van though as some places we go to only have underground parking & a truck would be to big to get under. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwi Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 My biggest concern with this is what will happen to Conlux. I started getting conlux MCM5 coin mechs and CV1000 bill acceptor and they are amazing. Do you know if these Conlux models are being manufactured in Japan or the USA? I can't seem to find the CV1000 on the nippon conlux website but this mite be because they are made in the USA. They do look very similar to the VN2500 apart from the different coloured stickers & cashbox. How do you rate the MCM5 compared to the CCM5G? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chocolate Bar W / Nuts Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Oh ok, so do your cans fit & vend properly without jammimg or misaligning because of the extra space? I was wondering if the Euro-style vans are utilized in your country as much as, say, like in Europe, but it sounds like the western style service van is the big player for NZ. Digressing a little more here, how many accounts are you servicing & are you a 1 pony show like myself or do you have employees working for you? Currently, i'm running about 50 accounts & working 65-75 hrs per week & lovin' every minute of it!! I hope Crane won't fool around with the Currenza validator or the 7512i Mars mech & mess with their superb quality... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncho Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Do you know if these Conlux models are being manufactured in Japan or the USA? I can't seem to find the CV1000 on the nippon conlux website but this mite be because they are made in the USA. They do look very similar to the VN2500 apart from the different coloured stickers & cashbox. How do you rate the MCM5 compared to the CCM5G? I havnt had enough of a run with the MCM5 to know for sure, but it seems better built. The CV1000, however seems to be exactly like the VN2500's in and out. I have worked on them myself a bunch and all the parts look identical. The only difference I can see is you have to program it via coupon, which isnt that big of an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinkJazzX Posted January 14, 2013 Author Share Posted January 14, 2013 To be more competitive in the market, I wonder if there is a possibility that Wittern (parent company of USI) will merge or at least form a strategic alliance with Sanden Vendo or Royal/Coinco. Does anyone here see this happening? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwi Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 To be more competitive in the market, I wonder if there is a possibility that Wittern (parent company of USI) will merge or at least form a strategic alliance with Sanden Vendo or Royal/Coinco. Does anyone here see this happening? I could see Coinco/RoyalVendors next step maybe being to try to acquire AMS Vendors as it is the only piece missing in there puzzle. I thought it was a great move on there part to buy inOne Technologies & having a Snack Machine Range like AMS would definitely help them compete with Crane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reel Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 From my understanding Royal Vendors currently have a combination in the market now its currently unergoing testing from what i have heard. I will know more in a months time after i attend an IVMOA meeting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwi Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 From my understanding Royal Vendors currently have a combination in the market now its currently unergoing testing from what i have heard. I will know more in a months time after i attend an IVMOA meeting. Hi Ron, I am just wondering if you had any discussions regarding remote monitoring & card readers while you were at the meeting? I heard that Oz had changed the regulations regarding credit card security standard & thought you may have some info on this that would be helpful to me. Are you running Remote Monitoring & Cashless on any of your machines? Does anyone know if Wittern are going to continue to be the master distributor for Conlux in the US now that they are owned by Crane? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZVendor Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 I hadn't seen this thread before so I'm glad it was brought to the front again. The way Crane is buying up vending manufacturers is going to become (has already become) the largest threat to independent vendors yet. With every purchase, they drop lines of machines, eliminate parts inventories, and raise parts prices for what they do still carry. They have consolidated manufacturing and eliminated hundreds of jobs. Now with the purchase of MEI, Coinco is the only independent, privately-held coinage manufacturer in the states. I had a long discussion with a 30 year Coinco branch manager last week. There is no indication that Wittern will lose the Conlux master distribution license. In fact, since Crane owns Money Controls, National Rejectors and Currenza (all from Europe by the way), they didn't need Conlux. But having a built-in distributor for Conlux means it won't be a resource drain for Crane so it's worth keeping for now. This is too bad for Conlux fans as Wittern has the highest prices ever charged for any brand of coin mech anywhere. Now if Wittern were to lose or not want Conlux anymore, it's debatable if Crane would offer MEI products to their chief US competitor. It seems that Wittern would be more likely to start using Coinco stuff again as they have in the past before the Conlux agreement. This is all speculation of course. It seems though, that Crane may be looking to replace the crappy Currenza recycler with the Mars recycler. The Currenza piece of junk was a primary reason Crane bought Money Controls. This occurred after Crane saw a prototype of the Currenza recycler at a European trade show. Seeing it as a really good product that could compete with them in Europe, Crane bought the company to prevent the competition. What they found out, however, was that the recycler was a piece of junk, and most of it had to be redesigned before it went to production, months later than expected. It still turned out to be crap, but better crap than originally designed. I haven't seen a Currenza recycler last more than a year, and lots of operators retire them and change to standard validators. On the topic of consolidation of manufacturers brought up earlier in the thread, it's sad to know that when AP decided to sell out (due to labor issues and the desire of the Givens family to retire (remember Gross-Givens Manufacturing?)), Coinco had a good offer on the table. When Crane found this out they grossly overpaid for AP just to keep it away from Coinco, who already owned Royal Vendors. This is too bad as a Coinco-owned AP would have ensured the AP line of equipment would have survived independently for a long time, not being assimilated and morphed into National machines as has saddly happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwi Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 Hey AZVendor... I found your post very interesting reading although like you said some of it is "only speculation" it is very well thought out. I agree with you that Crane is threatening our vending industry by buying out opposition manufactures & in a way creating their own monopoly. I hope companies like Coinco/Royal, USI & AMS are going to be able to survive in the future going forward as I feel if there was a lack of competition prices will only continue to go up while machine quality will go down. I feel that by USI continuing to distribute Conlux that they are only really supporting Crane in a way. Do you know why USI stopped using Coinco? I have always been a Coinco fan but seem to here a lot of negative feedback about them on here by people who prefer MEI. I don't have any real preference & I don't feel one is better than the other but then most of the negative feedback has been on the Coinco Guardian which I don't have a lot of experience with. I did just get a phone call today from an operator who told me that one of his Guardian 6000 just died which was under 12months old. These stories I continue to here don't install a lot of faith in their Guardian for me. On another note.. the way Crane has destroyed some of the other brands they have brought like AP may end up being good news for Coinco if Cranes history of turning quality equipment into rubbish continues with MEI. I was also wondering if you have heard any rumors of Coinco/Royal manufacturing their own snack line? I did here this awhile back but I don't think anything has eventuated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZVendor Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 Kiwi, I don't know if Coinco pulled their product from Wittern or if Wittern went looking for something no one else had to put into their machines. I believe it was the latter. Conlux was struggling to get into the US market for a long time in the 90's and had made inroads into some of the bottlers, but no major manufacturers seemed interested. I think Wittern came along and got a smokin' deal from Conlux to be their master US distributor, guaranteeing Conlux would be in every new Wittern machine and then dropped Coinco. It took awhile for Wittern to work through all the Coinco inventory they had because for awhile we never knew what coinage would be in a new machine. Sometimes it was Coinco, sometimes Conlux. Eventually it was all Conlux and then MEI bought Conlux and allowed Wittern to continue distribution. I don't understand the preference people seem to have for the Mars stuff. I believe Coinco and Mars have comparable validators with a slight edge to Mars for wet bill acceptance and compact validator size (no control box on the side). I use both with no qualms at all. Both manufacturers have had turkeys - Coinco with the USQ series (their first 4 tube) and Mars with the VN4000 mech (their first 4 tube). The Coinco Guardian around here is only in bottler owned machines so I don't see too many of them. They do seem to have trouble in very dirty locations though. The Guardian is really best suited for high coin tube capacity, which I feel is overkill, and because it's such a new design there are software updates and possible hardware updates that they get when they break and need to be serviced. This is no different than when the Mars CF7000 series of mechs came out. They were getting constant software upgrades for 3-4 years. I don't think Crane is going to mess with the Mars hardware. They are getting such a highly developed and successful line of coin mechs and validators that it would just be stupid to try to change anything. My understanding is that Mars/Conlux will continue to be operated as a seperate entity unlike what they did with DN and AP. When Crane bought DN, I had a sinking feeling about what would happen to them. The first thing Crane did was determine that the DN parts prices were too low. The buyout occured when steel prices were real high. DN was sitting on alot of steel parts that were made from cheaper steel. Crane decided that just because steel prices were high, they needed to raise all steel parts prices. We saw vend rotors go from $10-12 to $35 overnight. Then Crane decided to make obsolete and destroy (not sell to aftermarket suppliers) hundreds of part numbers for older equipment, even though DN equipment lasts forever and the parts would be needed by their customers. It was very obvious that Crane wanted minimal overhead, low inventory carrying costs and lower labor costs. They laid off many long term DN employees that knew the equipment and parts forward and backwards. I don't even know any of the tech or parts people anymore. I think Crane also decided that their focus was on selling new machines, not supporting older machines. This same thing happened with the purchase of AP. AP had previously purchased Rowe International because AP wanted the rights to Rowe's carousel food machine. AP, much like Crane would later do, had no interest in continuing to manufacture the good quality Rowe snack machines or to carry any parts for Rowe equipment. They redesigned the Rowe 648 food machine with new electronics and some AP parts and called it the 748, but it was very short lived and I don't think the AP distributor here sold more than 5 or 6 of them. AP did at least buy the Rowe parts which came to them in tractor trailer loads that then just sat untouched in the back lot at their plant. AP made a deal with Vendors Exchange and sold the trailers of parts to them. VE later found out that all the parts had been removed from the Rowe plant, thrown into unlabeled boxes and stacked and wrapped on pallets. There was no organization to the parts and VE had no idea what they even had. To this day I don't know how much of the Rowe inventory even made it into VE's inventory. It wasn't long after this transaction that a lot of Rowe parts became "No Longer Available" from VE. When Crane then made a play for AP, out from under Coinco's nose (and secretly I might add), it wasn't to obtain rights to any particular machine but to eliminate a competitor. Crane immediately closed the union plant in Minnesota and moved all equipment production to Bridgeton, Missouri. Crane ran a very efficient plant and used the Japanese just-in-time method of production where the parts arrive at the proper place in the line for the assembly to continue. This allowed them to control their parts inventory, but the loser was the service parts organization where the end users, their customers, began having trouble obtaining replacement parts and sometimes warranty parts. It seems that Crane only wanted to purchase what they needed for manufacturing, not for support of existing machines. Again, their focus was on new equipment, not on supporting legacy equipment. Just before AP sold, they had moved from their 120 series snack machines to the 130 series machines. Crane only ordered enough parts to build 130 series machines, not enough for replacement parts. I waited 6 months to get a replacement delivery bin for a customers 130/932 snack machine. The bins were plastic and prone to breaking at their attachment points and the delivery door pivot points. The first part I got from AP was broken the same way as the part I needed to replace. The second bin was bent where it attached to the door and would bind up the delivery door. I had to get the president of the AP distributor and the AP production manager involved in order to get a bin. Now we find out that wiring harnesses are not available for certain late model machines. The supplier of harness connectors that AP sourced from went out of business. Crane refused to buy the tooling to produce the connectors themselves and now the harnesses are not available. This was on a 120 series machine and early 130 series machines. The model changed to the 930 series when built by Crane, so the numbers are interchangeable. Now you can't even buy an AP snack machine. The link on AP's website goes to Cranes Merchant Six, a butt-ugly machine that I, personally wouldn't buy. It's only downhill from here. I haven't heard of a Coinco snack machine line. I would look forward to one if they did it, but I think they realize that their money is better used to produce mechs and validators. They own Royal and InOne Technology and they have even divested themselves of a Money Controls competitor they owned in Europe. Coinco, like AP, is family owned and the family is getting older all the time. The real question is "What's going to happen to Coinco when the owners want to sell?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moondog Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 You'd think that Coinco would be looking at AMS if they were to purchase a snack machine company. Royal and AMS are located in the same town in West Virginia and have similar "roots". It's a shame about AP but even before they were bought out, I could see a gradual decline in their product quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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