Important for every type of operator

[Makes Cents]

If the Dollar Bill is eliminated and the Dollar Coin comes into play, do you know that your sales will increase 30%

Then, what if we follow  50 cent vending (2 quarters).  Imagine a two coin - $2 vend?  

Many charity guys on here can say they do not operate 2 inch capsules.  Ok, I understand.  But, that bar you are in, why not increase to a Dollar Vend on your small machine giving out more? Why not try expensive, name brand candies?  How about the break rooms or any other places you might have machines in.

I hear many people saying that a $300 DBA is expensive. Whats your cost now when you have the coin?  $20 to convert, if that??

Think of all the savings then think of all the increase in business.

Our Government as a whole is a good, productive government.  Change does happen every day.  Maybe not what you want, maybe not what you need, but it does help the greater good.  Support our Government, support our Vending trade Associations and support each operator on here.;

I was speaking more to the political process of the change but I'll try and address the issue from my perspective.

I know you’re a well respected established vendor and manufacturer with many more years experience than me, still I think my points are at least worth considering.

You say “if the Dollar Bill is eliminated and the Dollar Coin comes into play, do you know that your sales will increase 30%”. I say maybe but not my profits, heres why.

I am a charity gum & candy vendor. I vend at .25 cents I see no benefit from the dollar coin to me other than it will allow candy and gum mfg. to raise they’re bulk prices knowing that there is room to do so. Toy Importers will do the same and the net effect will be the increased profit margins to the vendor will be short lived. Costs of goods will go up. Sales will slow.

Lets look at gas as an example of what I feel will happen.. When I was growing up it was around$1.20 per gallon & my parents cars got around 15mpg. Then around from the 90’s into 2000’s gas went from @$1.89-$2.89. and my cars were getting around 25 mpg. Now gas is @ $4.00 per gallon and my hybrid car gets @38mpg. Notice something here? The profit margin to the mfg. stays around the same. The retail price is adjusted.

Another direct example of this is when oil spiked in 2007 toy importers were forced to raise their prices forcing many vendors to adjust their prices higher. When prices stabilized these importers still kept many of the price points.That means the importer was making more because they new they could get away with it. If a toy vendor is contracted and exclusive to a location it may well work to have higher price points as they have no competitors but for the avg. toy vendor it means slower sales at an increased price or higher volume of sales with a lower profit at the old price.

You may feel that oil & fuel is a commodity and its prices are set by speculators. Ok, but sugar & cocoa are commodities as well and sugar, cocoa & oil all help determine the prices of bulk gum, candy and small toy imports.

The net effect of the dollar coin imo will be increased prices from the supplier, passed on to the consumer while the vendors increased profits will be short lived and even the increased profit realized will be offset by slower sales.

[Frank]

I am a charity gum & candy vendor. I vend at .25 cents I see no benefit from the dollar coin to me other than it will allow candy and gum mfg. to raise they’re bulk prices knowing that there is room to do so. Toy Importers will do the same and the net effect will be the increased profit margins to the vendor will be short lived. Costs of goods will go up. Sales will slow.

 

 

I understand everything your saying but please trust me.  Price increases are not because the manufacturer wants to make more profit.  They have no choice.  I spent a few months last year living in Hong Kong.  Prices are rising.  Gum and Candy manufacturers have increased costs as well.  

 

I understand that operators do not want change.  I will respect that.  But please understand our industry started selling gumballs at a penny, then raised to two cents then a nickel, then a dime and now a quarter.  We have been vending gumballs since the 1980's for a quarter.  The original 25 cent gumball was first the 475 then the 650 count.  It averaged out to the 850 count and today its going towards 1080.  

 

Some of charity's biggest sellers in the 60's, 70's and 80's were nuts and name brand candy.  We cannot vend that at a quarter anymore.  

 

In closing, I hear you and I understand you.  But please realize back 3 decades ago, operators were fighting the increase from a penny gumball to a nickel.

[moondog]

It will save 4 Billion Dollars of tax payers money.

Hogwash!!!

 

It's costs 5 cents to print a dollar which lasts five years versus thirty five cents to mint the current one dollar coin which lasts thirty years - do the math.  In addition the US Mint sells both to the banks for one dollar.  In the meantime, there's seignorage, the profit made by the government each time a denomination is sold to the banks.  The present and future value of seignorage is much greater with the paper dollar.

 

That aside, the larger issue here is that this country remains great because the majority of us are still willing to do what's right rather than pursuing our own special interests to the detriment of the majority. Forcing the American people to use the one dollar coin just so we can make more money is reprehensible.

[Frank]

To me it's bettering an industry. You already benefit from the dollar and two dollar vends with full line machines. We bulk vendors can't. But I do understand the motive of a full line vendor not wanting the dollar coin because they already have Dba in every machine.

[moondog]

To me it's bettering an industry. You already benefit from the dollar and two dollar vends with full line machines. We bulk vendors can't. But I do understand the motive of a full line vendor not wanting the dollar coin because they already have Dba in every machine.

You misunderstand Frank - we're all set up to accept the one dollar coin but no one will use them.  Your industry would be better served by redesigning your machines to better address the existing system rather than expecting the system to change to be more adaptable to your existing system.  Why doesn't anyone in bulk vending use a one dollar coin mech now? You've got the coins and the wheels couldn't be that expensive to make - a far sight cheaper than the coin mechs and five dollar bill validators we use I'll bet.

[Smiley]

It's not just Europe that has eliminated paper money values as little as one dollar. It's every other industrialized country in the world. Because it saves money. Not because of the vending industries.

America is a republic. We elect leader to make decisions for us. Polls are interesting but we don't use them to decide every issue.

[Frank]

 Your industry would be better served by redesigning your machines to better address the existing system rather than expecting the system to change to be more adaptable to your existing system.  

 

I have been proactive and if you have not read about the All American Chicken Machine, it accepts Dollar Bills.  I would like nothing more than to see other electronic units out there but I also do respect the operator and understand the cost involved.  We have operators that do not want to spend the money converting a 25 cent mech to a 50 cent mech.  I feel for them as I know it is very costly.

[musser]

Well here we go. I was in bulk vending a really long time ago. I went nowhere with it, I was too young to know what I had. But back then I had a small route and did some locating for Graff Vending. In fact I was putting out the most cutting edge concept of the day, a TWENTYFIVE CENT Victor with the new 2" cap. Wow, we were rockin, twenty five cents, it was crazy, never going to work, bulk vending is a penny business, no one carries quarters, blah blah. It was fantastic. Oh, and another absolutely stupid product appeared, the superball. Who would be stupid enough to give a Dime, a whole DIME for a rubber ball? Most guys were still at a nickel and a dime ball was just nuts. Well the superballs were what went crazy.

I had some u-select-it machines and stoners at a dime and the world was great.

Heck DBA what's that? Heck clear up into the 80s full line and amusement operators resisted the DBA. Bills going in machines, that's crazy talk!

Reworking some of my cranes and other vending and amusements with a single coin acceptor will be costly. But I will tell you this, a dollar coin (and the abolishment of the paper one) would jump start this business. I will go further than that though. I think we are at a mental impasse in this country because of our currency. We need to get rid of the paper dollar because it preserves the illusion a dollar has some value. Todays dollar is the dime of my youth. Make it into a coin and it will be spent like dimes used to be. They will mostly come vendings direction. This is exactly what has happened in every country that has gone to high value coins. Let me say it again, it will greatly change spending habits to the benefit of all coin op. Are you full line, well think a bit on the five becoming the new one and what that will do for you

[moondog]

Well here we go. I was in bulk vending a really long time ago. I went nowhere with it, I was too young to know what I had. But back then I had a small route and did some locating for Graff Vending. In fact I was putting out the most cutting edge concept of the day, a TWENTYFIVE CENT Victor with the new 2" cap. Wow, we were rockin, twenty five cents, it was crazy, never going to work, bulk vending is a penny business, no one carries quarters, blah blah. It was fantastic. Oh, and another absolutely stupid product appeared, the superball. Who would be stupid enough to give a Dime, a whole DIME for a rubber ball? Most guys were still at a nickel and a dime ball was just nuts. Well the superballs were what went crazy.

I had some u-select-it machines and stoners at a dime and the world was great.

Heck DBA what's that? Heck clear up into the 80s full line and amusement operators resisted the DBA. Bills going in machines, that's crazy talk!

Reworking some of my cranes and other vending and amusements with a single coin acceptor will be costly. But I will tell you this, a dollar coin (and the abolishment of the paper one) would jump start this business. I will go further than that though. I think we are at a mental impasse in this country because of our currency. We need to get rid of the paper dollar because it preserves the illusion a dollar has some value. Todays dollar is the dime of my youth. Make it into a coin and it will be spent like dimes used to be. They will mostly come vendings direction. This is exactly what has happened in every country that has gone to high value coins. Let me say it again, it will greatly change spending habits to the benefit of all coin op. Are you full line, well think a bit on the five becoming the new one and what that will do for you

 

Your reasoning is impeccable Musser but my problem is perhaps a more moral issue - I can't abide forcing my fellow Americans to do something that they clearly don't want to do.  If the dollar bill went away and I only needed coin mechs to run my full line business, would that be beneficial to ME - you bet.  It's not about ME - maybe I'm old school but my customers work hard for those dollars and who am I to tell them they have to use the dollar coins?  There is already a perfectly good one dollar coin available should you choose to upgrade your equipment (like I have) to accept it.  If you can get the people to accept the one dollar coin, I'm all for it.  Should you force them to use it then I'm vehemently opposed.

[adog]

I bet I would find more dollar coins on the ground then dollar bills lol although when I was younger my family went to Europe where they have the dollar pounds in their currency. We got smart one time on this vacation and decided to check under these train cushions once everyone got off the train. Truth be told we found 13 dollars in these "pounds" lets see some kids find that in dollar bills lol. I know off topic.

But honestly great debate and topic guys. Nice to get away from noob questions. I see both sides have some valid arguments in this.

[moondog]

I have been proactive and if you have not read about the All American Chicken Machine, it accepts Dollar Bills.  I would like nothing more than to see other electronic units out there but I also do respect the operator and understand the cost involved.  We have operators that do not want to spend the money converting a 25 cent mech to a 50 cent mech.  I feel for them as I know it is very costly.

 

Frank.,

 

I have read all of the Chicken posts and appreciate what you did to help the forum.  I also feel that it was unfair of certain members of this forum to give you a hard time about it after the fact, but I'm not an amusement vendor so I'll respect all opinions on the issue.  I have, in fact, recommended your machine to at least one new vendor here as the Chicken has an obvious appeal to kids between four and eight - you don't need a marketing degree to recognize this.

 

I don't think this is about amusement equipment, which has the same ability as soda and snack machines to utilize bill acceptors.  It has more to do with bulk vending machines which are frankly is at least an one hundred year old technology.  

 

While I also feel for the bulk vendors,  many of them them make their living doing this,  I can't support the abolition of the dollar bill just because it serves their interest or my interest or your interest.

 

If you want to do a campaign, get the public to better appreciate the dollar coin and start making conversion mechs to handle the coins we've already got (as well as some wheels that will vend a half ounce of PMM's)

[caserri]

If you want to do a campaign, get the public to better appreciate the dollar coin and start making conversion mechs to handle the coins we've already got (as well as some wheels that will vend a half ounce of PMM's)

Bingo. The "obvious solution" I referred to in what seems like 100 posts ago. Instead of trying to change something why not just adapt to whats already there. Letter writing to try and change something that doesn't need changing is an exercise in futility.

However, letter writing does have its merits. I have written my letter and dropped it off in the mailbox this morning. I must admit I did get a warm and fuzzy feeling inside thinking that I was doing something good. Unfortunately I am also smart enough to know that is all I will get from it.

By the way, I bought the stamp using a dollar coin!

Waiting for change...

[Frank]

HI Moondog, Thanks for your kind words and your support.  Operators on here give me a hard time but I cant blame some of them.  People are afraid of change, even if it is good for them.  Many members on here have no choice but to fight my machine even if they no nothing about it because of many reasons: they might not have money to invest, they might not want to invest or they simply do not understand electronics or they truly dont like it.  All of these reasons make it valid and I respect them.  Take Musser for example.  He fought me, he was nasty - but I kept trying with him.  He finally gave in and tried one.  This week he ordered more.  He goes back to the Graff days, trying a chicken machine had to be very hard for him.  But the point is he did and now he is doing well with it.

 

The point to my above message about the chicken is the same as the Dollar coin.  At first, I would agree with you that America does not want the Dollar coin but I cant accept that.  Smiley could testify to this.  In the late 1990's, Roger Folz again tried so hard for the Dollar coin.  He went to Rep. Peter King who was then Chairman of the Currency Dept.  Rep. King said if you can prove to me just by taking a poll that Americans want the coin, I will introduce it.  Well, Roger took that poll with Smiley and my family as well as others money..lol and the poll showed when Americans were educated on the topic, they supported it.  Again, today Senator John McCain believes the American people want it.  On the Dollar coin Alliance page, they took this poll and here is what was said:

 

Taxpayer support: Two-Thirds of Americans support replacing the dollar bill with the dollar coin when informed of the potential government savings.

Bingo. The "obvious solution" I referred to in what seems like 100 posts ago. Instead of trying to change something why not just adapt to whats already there. 

 

 

Steve how many Dollar coins do you carry in your pocket??   How can an operator install a Dollar coin mech when people carry Dollar bills???  We need to eliminate the Dollar bill and only have the Dollar coin like most other nations do.  Then I can see the operator spending money on purchasing new mechs.  

[caserri]

I carry more than I wish to. I'm always getting them back as change. I think they should eliminate the coin and stick with the bill.

[mainor5251]

Guess nows not a good time to inquire about a $5 coin

[Frank]

Steve, you are now an ATM operator. Although you no longer have bulk vending routes, I am sure you will see an increase in business. This Dollar coin push is not only for us bulk operators but can even help you ATM operators as well

Steve, you are now an ATM operator. Although you no longer have bulk vending routes, I am sure you will see an increase in business. This Dollar coin push is not only for us bulk operators but can even help you ATM operators as well

Steve, you are now an ATM operator. Although you no longer have bulk vending routes, I am sure you will see an increase in business. This Dollar coin push is not only for us bulk operators but can even help you ATM operators as well

Why did it copy three times?

[musser]

"Take Musser for example.  He fought me, he was nasty - but I kept trying with him.  He finally gave in and tried one.  This week he ordered more.  He goes back to the Graff days, trying a chicken machine had to be very hard for him.  But the point is he did and now he is doing well with it."..Frank

 

LOL, when you are wrong your wrong! I have gained a lot of respect for Frank, listen to this guy.

[NorthDakotaMike]

Frank Quote: "This Dollar coin push is not only for us bulk operators but can even help you ATM operators as well

Steve, you are now an ATM operator. Although you no longer have bulk vending routes, I am sure you will see an increase in business. This Dollar coin push is not only for us bulk operators but can even help you ATM operators as well"

 

I agree with Frank on his very key points with the  dollar coin.  I would like to share our experience with our ATM that we have at our very diversified facility for about 29 months now.  We are glad that we insisted on the ability to give out $5 bills .... tailoring it to the specific facility that it was installed.

 

Anybody with any influence with the various ATM manufacturers should consider lobbying them to have affordable ATMs that would allow an option for the customers to get higher denomination coins (1 dollar & above).  I know that feature would increase the value of that specific ATM in the eyes & experience of a large percentage of customers.

 

Mike Walsh http://kingkoin.com/USA_Deficit_Reduction.html