Single, double, and triple versus Uturn?

[rodney69]

Ok, so I'm new to the forum and I had a question. I'll give a little background first. 

I have had my route for about 12 years and it's lasted through all the ups and downs. I own mostly U-turn 4 and 8 select machines, with a few vendesign and sticker.

 

 I'm curious about the fascination with smaller machines like single heads and double heads. I've tried all kinds of machines, but I always figured if it was worth a stop, then it needed more heads to offer more product in a small space, BUT, I also know myself well enough that I can be one minded about something and don't want to miss an opportunity to expand into something because of my ignorance! LOL

 

So why put a smaller machine in somewhere? Or is it that you can get into them cheaper, making profit sooner? Isn't it more worth it to have 4 selections? Or is it just leaving it there long enough with say gumballs (since they have a long life) and just servicing once every 6 months or so and pick up the money? Does that make it worth it?

 

Or is it just to fill in the gaps of a route where the bigger accounts are? I want to expand more and am in the process of it. Just don't want to miss out on something and then find out later how stupid I was for not paying more attention!

 

Thanks for your input!

 

Rodney

[ska173]

In my opinion, and somewhat limited experience, different platforms allow for better customization for any given location. I primarily run triples but will downgrade or upgrade as the location warrants. For example two of my locations have been upgraded to racks (one candy only, one toys/ candy/ balls) and another location was downgraded to a single head with gumballs only (and variations of this process, quads and doubles as warranted). With the single double locations I can spread out the service times. So my vision is to have a robust route that pays the bills and additional varied locations that just bring in extra income. I am having good success thus far with this model.

[GagesVending]

Most locations cannot support a Uturn.  Why wait until 6 months to service a large machine?  Some selections will be empty and others will not sell well; not to mention that your machine by then is filthy dirty and people probably haven't used it much the last two months.  You're more likely to get booted not making much of an appearance as well.  There's tons of reasons why you're better off "testing" a location with singles, doubles, etc. so that you can upgrade later if necessary.

[rodney69]

Oh, I don't let mine go 6 months! 3 tops! But that's what I was asking about a gumball machine. I'm just trying to understand the philosophy of using a single head. I usually start with a 4 select in somewhere that I'm unsure of then go to an 8 if necessary. I'm just trying to find out if I'm missing out on an opportunity of making money with a single or something other than I'm doing other than going to racks. That's what I was getting at I guess. 

Except that the machines are cheaper, like vendstar's and so on, but I usually get uturns for about 100.

So is it worth getting 3 or 2 head machines? 

And what kind of average do they make? My 4's I don't keep a spot that's under 15 a month, 

[rodney69]

That makes sense with a test. Less product out on location, less money and time to see what it will do..

[rodney69]

Most locations cannot support a Uturn.  Why wait until 6 months to service a large machine?  Some selections will be empty and others will not sell well; not to mention that your machine by then is filthy dirty and people probably haven't used it much the last two months.  You're more likely to get booted not making much of an appearance as well.  There's tons of reasons why you're better off "testing" a location with singles, doubles, etc. so that you can upgrade later if necessary.

And do use charity for them or commission?

[GagesVending]

Numbers are all dependent.  I've had singles that regularly do $20+/month and triples that did $5, until I pulled them.  I do charity and or commission.  Personally, I don't like Uturns, so I don't use them, but I do racks for larger selections and I find that a single that can do $10/month is worth having.  Takes about 2 minutes to service.

[sherlock]

Singles and doubles are for places that won't support more products.

More selection doesn't always equal more profit.

In some locations, giving customers more selection doesn't result in more quarters.

It sometimes just spreads the same amount of quarters out over more products.

 

I've upgraded a single-head location to a double and seen no real difference in gross earnings.

I've also seen the reverse; I've downgraded multi-head locations to a single and kept the same gross per month.

 

I would venture to say some of your u-turn spots would earn the same as they earn now even if you downgraded to a double.

 

 

[Jax Snacks]

Great points, sherlock.  More (selections) is not always better in bulk vending.  Especially with candy.  Just to expand on those points...

 

Too many products can create a cannibalization effect, where one product "steals" quarters from another.  So many times a double with candy will match or outperform a triple or quad with candy.  An ever bigger problem with the cannibalization effect is when the higher-cost product "steals" quarters away from the lower-cost products thus decreasing your total net for the entire machine.  And this is exactly what happens with Peanut M&Ms - more gross (quarters) but less (or maybe the same) net profit.  All those extra selections requires more heads, more inventory, more admin time managing the extra inventory - but usually not more (net) profit.

 

This is why I don't like triples and quads that forces a vendor to vend similar products from the same family (such as candy).  Now of course, you can have the same cannibalization effect with toys and flat vending.  I personally think that 4-column sticker machines and 9-way racks are overkill as well since, in many instances, fewer selections would generate the the same gross revenue - not to mention faster service time.

 

As many veterans board member know, I started with Uturns and used them for 10 years.  In 2011, I sold off all all my u-turns.  In 2012, my primary candy became Runts.  In 2013, I eliminated Peanut M&M's.

 

So yea, IMHO, less in usually better for bulk setups.  Overkill is a bad thing period - whether it be candy, toys or flat tattoos.

[musser]

I have always told newbies to start out with single head machines. Single head machines let you learn the other basics of bulk vending, the locating, servicing, bookeeping stuff on the cheap with little risk. It is easy to expand your product base, just  add another head or a small rack. The best part of doing this is that when you lose a location that had lets say 4 heads, you can break them back down to singles if needed.

 

My machine selection is driven by labor costs. I have drivers servicing machines. The labor involved in a uturn for example is pretty high compared to other machines. I know I will get al kinds of argument here but the fact is that I can send someone out to service single head machines with gum when they are about empty and they can service a machine in a couple of minutes and get $50-$70 on a product with a 9% cost. Minimal cleanup, no thinking, no carrying multiple products, minimal parts. Keep it simple.

[rodney69]

I have always told newbies to start out with single head machines. Single head machines let you learn the other basics of bulk vending, the locating, servicing, bookeeping stuff on the cheap with little risk. It is easy to expand your product base, just  add another head or a small rack. The best part of doing this is that when you lose a location that had lets say 4 heads, you can break them back down to singles if needed.

 

My machine selection is driven by labor costs. I have drivers servicing machines. The labor involved in a uturn for example is pretty high compared to other machines. I know I will get al kinds of argument here but the fact is that I can send someone out to service single head machines with gum when they are about empty and they can service a machine in a couple of minutes and get $50-$70 on a product with a 9% cost. Minimal cleanup, no thinking, no carrying multiple products, minimal parts. Keep it simple.

I like that idea. When I have 180 uturns on route I was going to expand and was trying to figure out how to train someone the knowledge I had gained in the process so they could run the route. 

Life happened and ended up with a lot less machines and now growing back from almost 10% of that! That's why I'm taking a look at it and re-evaluating!

I missed a lot of opportunity because I was using Uturn and tighter spots weren't ready for it. So now I'm going to try going into the singles, doubles and racks. I'll still use Uturn for break rooms maybe. 

 

I've gotten a lot of feedback off the original post. Thank you for it!!

[wildmanne39]

I personally started with doubles in 1995, last year I upgraded all my locations but a few to racks of 4. I left a few doubles because the locations can not support a rack of 4. But I am doing very well with the racks with 3 fifty cent toys and one big gum. I am putting out more racks of 4 all the time now.

[rodney69]

I personally started with doubles in 1995, last year I upgraded all my locations but a few to racks of 4. I left a few doubles because the locations can not support a rack of 4. But I am doing very well with the racks with 3 fifty cent toys and one big gum. I am putting out more racks of 4 all the time now.

What toys are selling for .50 right now? I was just trying to figure out what product to move to for .50. And is the gum .25?

[wildmanne39]

The gum is .25 and the toys I sell for 50 cents run about 20.00 a bag starting out to 30.00 but I try to keep it at the low end but it all depends on the competition.

[rodney69]

The gum is .25 and the toys I sell for 50 cents run about 20.00 a bag starting out to 30.00 but I try to keep it at the low end but it all depends on the competition.

Are toys the toys 1"?

[wildmanne39]

The 50 cent toys are 1 inch or more precisely 1.1 inch.