DeeBee Posted September 19, 2023 Share Posted September 19, 2023 Hi All, I'm looking for some help with this issue. I have a Crane 181 with a Nayax VPOS Touch card reader that I recently put in service. The machine is working well, but it's only outputting 12 unique MDB codes when I vend each item to get the map for my Nayax inventory. Looks like 5 of the 6 items on each tray share an MDB code. There was another post about this but I didn't see a clear resolution. I'm hoping someone has the answer on how to fix this as I can't see individual products or inventory levels through the Nayax app. My questions are: Is there a way to program MDB codes to product selections through the onboard menu within the machine? I haven't been able to find it as of yet. Is this caused by the machine or the Nayax reader? I have a ticket open with Nayax as well just in case they have seen this before and have an answer Has anyone experienced this before with a 181 or any machine and what did you do? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZVendor Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 That's a pretty old machine and DEX has been cannibalized by the manufacturer for other software things they want machines to do. You are probably limited to whatever output you get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryChris Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 16 hours ago, AZVendor said: That's a pretty old machine and DEX has been cannibalized by the manufacturer for other software things they want machines to do. You are probably limited to whatever output you get. I think you're confusing the model numbers. The 181 is a merchant with optional touch screen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZVendor Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 I was thinking it was a GPL. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryChris Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 On 9/19/2023 at 3:01 PM, DeeBee said: Hi All, I'm looking for some help with this issue. I have a Crane 181 with a Nayax VPOS Touch card reader that I recently put in service. The machine is working well, but it's only outputting 12 unique MDB codes when I vend each item to get the map for my Nayax inventory. Looks like 5 of the 6 items on each tray share an MDB code. There was another post about this but I didn't see a clear resolution. I'm hoping someone has the answer on how to fix this as I can't see individual products or inventory levels through the Nayax app. My questions are: Is there a way to program MDB codes to product selections through the onboard menu within the machine? I haven't been able to find it as of yet. Is this caused by the machine or the Nayax reader? I have a ticket open with Nayax as well just in case they have seen this before and have an answer Has anyone experienced this before with a 181 or any machine and what did you do? Thanks! I'm confused about the codes. I don't have a 181 or nayax but machines do put codes out. However, those codes should be unique to the selections. So maybe A1 or 10 is a code 0000 whereas the next code is 0001 or whatever. For cantaloupe readers, I have to use column maps to change those codes to something that makes sense like 0000 becomes A1. Then, in my vms, I have today what's in A1. It really depends on what you're trying to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeBee Posted September 21, 2023 Author Share Posted September 21, 2023 (edited) It is very strange as I figured each selection must have a unique MDB identifier, but this doesn't...or at least it isn't outputting properly. Here's what I got after I vended all 42 items in the machine: MDB Codes: 12592 12593 12848 12849 13104 13105 13360 13361 13616 13617 13872 13873 Good news is the machine is very busy. Bad news is I have no clue what's selling until I visit. My other machines all output unique codes per selection as you stated (i.e. Product selection A1 = MDB code 153; A3 = MDB code 155, etc.). This seems to be a great machine and is the right size for this location, so I would hate to swap it out for something else. It's a six tray machine and it's giving me twelve unique identifiers, so I feel like it's something that can be fixed. Each item selection works when it's used, so maybe something with the board communicating back to the motors? If I get really desperate, I can just make each item a unique price so I can track it that way😆 Edited September 21, 2023 by DeeBee Typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryChris Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 I see. As you and I suspect, 42 different motors should give 42 unique codes but do not. My best guess would be that the eprom needs updated. A machine that new should be good to go but crane is crane so... What kind of vms do you use? Do you use column mapping? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeBee Posted September 21, 2023 Author Share Posted September 21, 2023 I use the Nayax VMS (MoMa 2.0). There is column mapping built in but it’s not always accurate…and not sure it would work in this scenario. Nayax is slow to respond to help tickets but I do have one open with them for possible guidance. I think you might be right about an eprom update to get this issue resolved. I’m going to look into that and ask around a bit more. Also hoping someone else that had this issue, and resolved it, comes across our conversation and shares their experience. Thanks for the thoughts so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryChris Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 I have national 157s, some LCMs, 501es, etc.. all capable of logic or mdb because it was a transitional time between communication protocols. At worst, they wouldn't accept cards at all or just wouldn't report cash sales, but all of them would give unique codes for every selection and those models are all 20+ years old as far as I know, and all work perfectly with late version software on the eproms except LCMs (they never report cash sales). I ask about the vms because I'm wondering if it's causing this too. To date, with cantaloupe, I haven't ever seemed to get anything different by having the ded cable plugged in but maybe it does. I haven't cared to look into that. But do you have a dex cable plugged in too? Obviously the issue should be either the board or nayax. It is truly odd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeBee Posted September 21, 2023 Author Share Posted September 21, 2023 I do have DEX plugged in and I was actually thinking about unplugging to see if I get a different result. I haven’t exported the existing DEX data to Excel to see if I can get anything worthwhile out of it, but will try that too. On Nayax, it doesn’t report DEX data in real-time unless you tell it to…and even then I think there’s a delay. Right now, I have it do a DEX read at 12 am each night. I don’t get much benefit other than cash count…and that doesn’t always work properly. I’m still wondering how it’s vending properly without unique values but maybe it’s able to pass the item selection number to the board and then to the corresponding motor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZVendor Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 It vends properly because that is a function of the logic board running it's normal routines regardless of what card reader is has or if it reports over DEX protocol. The DEX is an extraction from the logic board that is separate from the actual process of vending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeBee Posted January 7 Author Share Posted January 7 Resolution: I sent a DEX report to a longtime engineer for Crane who determined the issue was that the board was out of space and needed an update. While we were waiting for a flash drive to come in with the update, the board shorted out. New board installed and has no issue; it’s properly outputting MDB codes now! Huge relief as this is a high volume machine. Hopefully this information helps someone else that is having this issue in the future. Thanks again for talking through this a few months ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZVendor Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 What is longtime at Crane now? 12 months? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryChris Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 5 hours ago, AZVendor said: What is longtime at Crane now? 12 months? That's probably a senior engineer lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryChris Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 7 hours ago, DeeBee said: Resolution: I sent a DEX report to a longtime engineer for Crane who determined the issue was that the board was out of space and needed an update. While we were waiting for a flash drive to come in with the update, the board shorted out. New board installed and has no issue; it’s properly outputting MDB codes now! Huge relief as this is a high volume machine. Hopefully this information helps someone else that is having this issue in the future. Thanks again for talking through this a few months ago. The board was "out of space" lol! If that's what they told you, I'd say they are pretty pathetic. How could you possibly have a chip that's "full" on a VERY modern machine AND it doesn't report unique mdb codes? Sounds like poor software engineering. I'm glad you got it fixed despite having a shorted board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeBee Posted January 9 Author Share Posted January 9 Yeah, it didn't really make any sense to me, but apparently a board update would have resolved it. They said the guy worked for them over various changes for 20+ years. Either way, I now have a new board free of charge and the machine is working properly. The outcome took way too long, but was good nonetheless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KMD Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 (edited) On 1/9/2024 at 12:15 PM, DeeBee said: Yeah, it didn't really make any sense to me, but apparently a board update would have resolved it. They said the guy worked for them over various changes for 20+ years. Either way, I now have a new board free of charge and the machine is working properly. The outcome took way too long, but was good nonetheless. Do you happen to know the part numbers for everything (software and board)? I have a 181 doing the same thing in a very high volume location. Crane tech support is corrupt and parts can only read the manual. I was given part #CR0027387 for the program key. Is that what you had? For the board, did you replace the main board or the motor board or both? Edited February 17 by KMD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeBee Posted February 18 Author Share Posted February 18 We talked through this in a PM. Hope your new board works well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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