lurtsman Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 As many of you know, my posting here as decreased dramatically over the last year or so. I've become very depressed about business. At first it was shrinking slowly as I had several other things on my plate. Lately, the pace has accelerated. I can not rebuild it near as fast as it is torn down. My cash flow from the business has dropped off dramatically, and my unemployment will run out. We'll be living off income from my wife's job, but it leaves me wondering - Why does it suck so much? I don't hate vending machines - I love the machines. I love having my machines sell products. I enjoy refurbishing machines, and I enjoy finding deals. I used to love going out to service my route, but the enjoyment level dropped off dramatically. It seems every time I go out I get kicked from a location. I dress nice, I wear deodorant, I'm well groomed, but the kicks just keep coming. It's not like it's the random new manager, several of these accounts I've had for over a year, often over 2 years. The reasons are varied, but the effect is the same. I can not keep smiling at people who are coming to tell me to pound salt. I'm at the breaking point, because no matter how much I give it won't keep up with the damage. My living room and garage are loaded with machines, it's going to be as cold as **** for the next 3 months--sucks for going out locating, and when I order locations I drive there to find the manager either said no, wasn't actually a manager, or is in a screaming match with a resident. You'd think unemployment would open up time to be locating, but I had to take classes to keep the claim active. Classes were fun, but I just didn't have the energy to keep working after they were done for the day. What I hate is the way our industry is treated. For some reason people think it is acceptable to treat us like ****. The business is profitable--if you can keep quality locations. That's a pretty huge catch, since they think it is acceptable to boot vendors on a whim. There is a reason cell phone plans, internet plans, and every customer oriented service contains a contract with harsh monetary punishments. Yet we have none of these powers. I'm looking for another job--but again, I don't have time for classes, running a business, and a job search. I won't find one near here--I've already accepted that this area has no use for intelligent business professionals. The local college offers MBAs and would love to have me since they got my GMAT scores, but they ask all MBA students to leave the city immediately upon graduation because they don't want their numbers brought down by people not finding jobs--and they readily admit that there are none here. I used to think I could focus and work hard and I'd be able to catch up. The workload isn't like that though. The first X hours each day just go to taking care of the daily crap without making a dent in the real problem. It reminds me of trying to pay down a huge debt when you can barely get the interest payments. So I am left hating the industry. I'm golpher good at picking products, fixing machines, and setting up displays to attract kids. I'm not good at kissing golpher to get into these locations or keep them. Anyone else feel like the American dream has been flushed down the toilet? PS. I will have several machines available for sale. When I finish selling my business I will be moving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jj54 Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 SORRY, I HATE THAT YOUR HAVING A HARD TIME, IT SOUNDS AS IF IT"S NOT YOUR FAULT. I TO HAVE HAD SOME HARDSHIPS IN BUSINESS, I GOT IN THE VENDING BUSINESS LAST MARCH. HAD MY PERSONAL MONEYS TO INVEST, SO NO PAYMENTS ON MACHINES JUST BUY PRODUCT AND GAS AND REPAIRS. YOU STILL MUST WATCH YOUR MONEYS. IT" S HARD TIMES IN ALL BUSINESS TODAY. WISH I COULD HELP WITH A WORD, DON"T KNOW OF ANY. SOMETIME YOU DO WHAT YOU MUST NEED TO DO, I"LL KEEP YOU IN MY PRAYERS, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLM Vending Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 I hate to sound cliche here, but this does seem like your creating a lot of this. When you think negative, negative things accelerate and you get more of it. Or maybe Im wrong. But relocating is an ongoing process and is one of the most important aspects of keeping your business going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lurtsman Posted December 4, 2011 Author Share Posted December 4, 2011 I know when it all came unraveled. I devoted a great deal of energy to landing a HUGE account that had a base fixed rent. It was never profitable, but the time investment was a challenge and they always wanted something. After I had landed it I started investing my time on other ventures - which failed - and left me doing a poor job of expanding. My business is not as strong as it used to be. For the big guys, how do you keep up the locating? How do you handle the boots? I had about 80, maybe 82 locations at once and for a while I was keeping up with servicing that. 95% of my route is within an area that spans about 30 miles. I feel now like that may be very very low. For those guys who are making it work, how many locations are you doing in a day, and how do you track products/locations to service? I have everything in an excel sheet, check revenue reports and figure out which locations need visits this month then write down names and products by city. As I got depressed it's felt like more of a chore to go through the reports and figure these things out. I think one of the depressing issues is just having a few slow accounts that I can't pull because I have too many machines in my living room. Also, if you live in the midwest, do you still go out locating in the bitter cold of winter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will.vend Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 For the big guys, how do you keep up the locating? How do you handle the boots? For those guys who are making it work, how many locations are you doing in a day, and how do you track products/locations to service? I have everything in an excel sheet, check revenue reports and figure out which locations need visits this month then write down names and products by city. As I got depressed it's felt like more of a chore to go through the reports and figure these things out. I think one of the depressing issues is just having a few slow accounts that I can't pull because I have too many machines in my living room. Also, if you live in the midwest, do you still go out locating in the bitter cold of winter? First of all Im sorry to hear you are having a hard time. I locate everyday that I am out working my routes, some days I land accounts and other days I dont, one day I went out just to locate and landed 15 new accounts, the next day I couldnt get a yes to save my life. I work on average 15 to 20 accounts in a day. I track my product/locations 2 ways... I have several route books with card stock cards that contain all the store info and an ongoing list of dates of service, I list the gross/commish/net in columns, I dont track each head, I count each location as a whole. I also use a daily notebook (6x9 ruled) that simply list the location and amounts collected. I can thumb back thru the pages and see what I have done, I also carry my totals forward daily in this book that gives me my month end totals. My route books are small 3 ring binders, I go thru them at night and decide where I will work the next day, with 3 rings I move the locations that I am going to work up 1 ring so that they stick out of the book, this shows me what location to work (each route book might contain 4 or 5 different routes) That's a long answer to your short question but it's a simple way of doing it for me. I do not track on a computer and I do not track each head separately, I know what sells and doesnt sell, it becomes obvious after a while. I dont want to get caught in an analysis/paralysis mode by using a computer that tells me statistical info that might or might not do me any good. I am old school and I know at some point I will have to use a computer but right now I am a 1 man show and it's just an extra step in the process.You even said it is a chore to go thru the reports. Keep it simple! In the past few months I have lost some good strong accounts because of the economy and I have way more equipment in my shop than should be, but it's a cyclical business and I will replace them soon. I try not to take losing an acct personal but I do, but I also get over it. I live in the south so we dont have bad winters so I vend year round. When I sold medical equipment we had a device called a S.A.D light it stands for seasonal affective disorder, mainly for people in the colder states that get cabin fever and depressed, maybe something like this would benefit you, but as you have gathered I am not qualified to diagnose you. My personal advice on your state of mind, is I would not make any major decisions right now. You can take a month off and your accounts will not suffer, give yourself time to heal and hopefully you will have a better outlook soon. When I get overwhelmed I remember something an old boss said, he said the way to eat an elephant is one bite at a time. another clique I use is stay in the moment, when I have one foot in the past and one foot in the future I am p!ss!ng on the moment! Another outlook I use is this is just a snapshot of your life, you will one day look back on this and see what I mean. these are things I needed to hear too, so thanks for helping me today! I will help you anyway I can if you want, just ask! I hope this helped and I hope you feel better soon. andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLM Vending Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 First of all Im sorry to hear you are having a hard time. I locate everyday that I am out working my routes, some days I land accounts and other days I dont, one day I went out just to locate and landed 15 new accounts, the next day I couldnt get a yes to save my life. Andy what type of places do you try to target? anything in particular or do you just drive around? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will.vend Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Andy what type of places do you try to target? anything in particular or do you just drive around? jlm I would be happy to answer your questions but that is off topic of lurtsman thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mainor5251 Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 yo lurts you tried the new locator yet, cheap way to get you back on track Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jax Snacks Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Losing locations sucks and I feel that pain. IMO, it is the biggest problem we can have. When I started, I had the misconception that vending was a “set it and forget it” (like that infomercial line) type of business. I have learned the hard way that vending routes are in a constant state of deterioration and shrinkage. If we do nothing but count quarters, the route will eventually wither away and die. I used to work for a newspaper and we would loose subscribers every day. The Circulation Director told me that he had to have constant sales pressure (telemarketing, booth sales, etc.) just to stay even. To use a sports analogy, every year a team will loose some players and it hurts even more when you lose a good one. So for me, the only way to deal with this problem is to constantly be looking for new blood. Sometimes when I get a new location, I don’t even consider it a new location. Rather a replacement location that I will lose next week, but don’t know it yet. Unfortunately, there can be no rest in obtaining new locations. Sorry to say, for those that think vending is passive income! And yea, I also hate the fact that we often get short or even no notice when asked to leave. And I also hate it when those A-hole owners don't bother to call us when they close their doors and we have to deal with the landlord to get out stuff out. In those cases, I try to be positive. I am happy to get the equipment back and rarely pay a commission for evictions. Lately, I have been able to get that equipment right back out in another location and not stowed away in storage. Any time I don’t throw a machine back in storage it is a positive. I guess to put a positive spin on this, your problem is a bit moot since you are relocating. If you start a new route in your new home, you will be prepared to deal with this turnover. It will still suck, however. Ditto on calling or emailing. You have my number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mission vending Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 As many of you know, my posting here as decreased dramatically over the last year or so. I've become very depressed about business. At first it was shrinking slowly as I had several other things on my plate. Lately, the pace has accelerated. I can not rebuild it near as fast as it is torn down. My cash flow from the business has dropped off dramatically, and my unemployment will run out. We'll be living off income from my wife's job, but it leaves me wondering - Why does it suck so much? I don't hate vending machines - I love the machines. I love having my machines sell products. I enjoy refurbishing machines, and I enjoy finding deals. I used to love going out to service my route, but the enjoyment level dropped off dramatically. It seems every time I go out I get kicked from a location. I dress nice, I wear deodorant, I'm well groomed, but the kicks just keep coming. It's not like it's the random new manager, several of these accounts I've had for over a year, often over 2 years. The reasons are varied, but the effect is the same. I can not keep smiling at people who are coming to tell me to pound salt. I'm at the breaking point, because no matter how much I give it won't keep up with the damage. My living room and garage are loaded with machines, it's going to be as cold as **** for the next 3 months--sucks for going out locating, and when I order locations I drive there to find the manager either said no, wasn't actually a manager, or is in a screaming match with a resident. You'd think unemployment would open up time to be locating, but I had to take classes to keep the claim active. Classes were fun, but I just didn't have the energy to keep working after they were done for the day. What I hate is the way our industry is treated. For some reason people think it is acceptable to treat us like ****. The business is profitable--if you can keep quality locations. That's a pretty huge catch, since they think it is acceptable to boot vendors on a whim. There is a reason cell phone plans, internet plans, and every customer oriented service contains a contract with harsh monetary punishments. Yet we have none of these powers. I'm looking for another job--but again, I don't have time for classes, running a business, and a job search. I won't find one near here--I've already accepted that this area has no use for intelligent business professionals. The local college offers MBAs and would love to have me since they got my GMAT scores, but they ask all MBA students to leave the city immediately upon graduation because they don't want their numbers brought down by people not finding jobs--and they readily admit that there are none here. I used to think I could focus and work hard and I'd be able to catch up. The workload isn't like that though. The first X hours each day just go to taking care of the daily crap without making a dent in the real problem. It reminds me of trying to pay down a huge debt when you can barely get the interest payments. So I am left hating the industry. I'm golpher good at picking products, fixing machines, and setting up displays to attract kids. I'm not good at kissing golpher to get into these locations or keep them. Anyone else feel like the American dream has been flushed down the toilet? PS. I will have several machines available for sale. When I finish selling my business I will be moving. Lurts, I have been self employed since 1990 and have been through the feelings you expressed twice. The first time led to changing careers and getting into vending. The second time was when my partner and I split up. Every business owner that I know has gone through something like this at some point in their career. Its a tough place to be and there are no easy answers or cliche's to offer. My suggestion is that you reflect on what you want to accomplish, by your post you have been juggling a lot of things and have been under a lot of pressure and stress. Not a good place to be making major life changing decisions. Take your time and be thoughtful, whatever your decision is be sure about it before you begin to make the changes that will result from your decision. If you do decide to stay in vending then analyze your strengths and weaknesses and what you need to do to improve the areas you are weak in. If you don't then it will be a never ending source of frustration for you. I don't feel that the American dream has been flushed down the toilet, in spite of all the things going on this is still the land of opportunity. Its just kind of hard to see that when you are struggling. If I can help somehow let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antoniocinisi Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 sorry to hear about how things are going lurts.I do less locating in the winter too because of the cold but I am always on the lookout if I`m out and about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLM Vending Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 I am always prepared to get kicked out of a location. Don't get too location happy if one of them is making a ton of money. However, I have not got kicked out of any yet in 8 months out of 30 spots. But i have defnitely moved a lot of them. You need to look at the fact that if you get kicked out every single month, you are still doing good because you have to look at all the ones that stayed. I never think of any of these machines having a permanent home. I think of it as a way to loan a space until you get a new one. Also, think of this business as starting over everyday. Remember the first day you did vending? That is what i try to tell myself. That each day it's like im starting over. Im signing up to do it all over again, the past is the past. I expect to lose some locations from time to time. It will be something i will have to get used to and that is that. But as long as your machine is not stolen, then there is nothing real terrible about losing a location. You simply find an equal spot and build. The location is never really yours to begin with. That is what i tell myself. The location is never something i own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lurtsman Posted December 5, 2011 Author Share Posted December 5, 2011 This thread has become excellent because of all the members who came and contributed. Thank you. 15 accounts in one day huh? I can't recall the last time I pitched 15 accounts in the same day, or the same month. I think that makes my problem pretty clear. I'm losing 1-2 locations per month and at about 70 locations currently. Some I might be able to salvage, and one I knew was too good to be true. It lasted 2 years longer than I thought it would, so I can't complain. I just need to man up and work on landing a few new accounts. I may give the new locator a shot and see what he or she can produce. I've also got some old machines that I need to post on craigslist or ebay to sell off and not seeing them every day may make it easier for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpvnc Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Lurts: I hope you find a way to pick up some more locations. Press on a little each day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLM Vending Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 This thread has become excellent because of all the members who came and contributed. Thank you. 15 accounts in one day huh? I can't recall the last time I pitched 15 accounts in the same day, or the same month. I think that makes my problem pretty clear. I'm losing 1-2 locations per month and at about 70 locations currently. Some I might be able to salvage, and one I knew was too good to be true. It lasted 2 years longer than I thought it would, so I can't complain. I just need to man up and work on landing a few new accounts. I may give the new locator a shot and see what he or she can produce. I've also got some old machines that I need to post on craigslist or ebay to sell off and not seeing them every day may make it easier for me. Lurtsman you have Nothing to fret about. You were just going through some tough droughts and there is nothing to worry about. So after having 80 locations and 2 years later down to 70, that is pretty pretty good still. You can get those 10 locations back in NO time and be right back to where you were at. This is not over for you. I mean even if you lost 3 every month, you are keeping more than 95 percent or so and you are only losing 1 maybe 2. You will have some multiple months where not only do you lose none, but gain some. This is not over for you at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mage Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 When the stress levels are high, and worry is occupying your mind, it is a sign you are either burning out, or already burned out, and you need serious R&R. One problem with being burned out is that some people don't think they are because they are not working as hard as they have in the past without a problem. But the key point for getting burned out is where your mind is preoccupied with a subject, and that can be a lot harder on a person then the actual work. Then adding in emotions, such as worry, can multiply that stress significantly. My suggestion is to spend one month simply running the business. Preferably stretching out the days if you can, and ignoring everything else. If you lose an account, just take it out, and forget about it for now. When your away from the business, keep your mind off of it. Force yourself to think of something else. And spend your free time reading, relaxing, and enjoying time with the family. Avoid replacing working and worrying about the business with something else that is stressful. At the end of a month, (or even 2,) come back refreshed, and ready to go. But not a minute sooner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLM Vending Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Lurtsman I feel for you. Things have been real frustrating for me lately too. Besides the U turns being a pain, I have been rejected 5 times in a row, using my locator. I hate to use names so I won't. Lots of driving for nothing. But i guess in vending you gotta put up with this stuff. It's just like anything in life. With the sweet comes the sour. Patience, perseverance, and consistency pays off in the long haul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lak20019 Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Lurts, I completely understand where you are. In the last 6 months I've lost about 90% of my locations, many that I've had over a year. I contemplated getting out of the business, and sold some machines. My garage is far too full with machines, and it's depressing just looking at them. I've taken a few months break, not even thinking about the business. I've come back revitalized and with a new game plan of how I approach the business. If I am completely honest with myself, I wasn't giving my business enough of my time, and it suffered as a result. I hope you take the time you need to make the best decision for you and your business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkochan Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 Hang in there. I suggest doing locating every day. I always do locating while servicing my route so that I can build a more denser route. After being in this business for four years I learned that losing locations is part of the business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLM Vending Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 for me, losing a location was more of a personal thing. If a spot sucked and i lost it by being kicked out or by removing it myself, i took it personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lurtsman Posted December 18, 2011 Author Share Posted December 18, 2011 JLM, I struggle with taking it personally. That may be more a reflection on my job experience shortly after graduating rather than my normal views on life. I'm used to dealing with customers deciding what to buy, and I expect that some customers will choose the other guy and that's okay. The more I work the more of the deals I can bring my way. Things are starting to look up. I did lose a couple more locations, but they were nothing that would hurt. One where the only employees using my machine no longer worked there. (It fell to doing about 1.25 per month with a charity sticker, not exactly an investment) Another where the owner plans to buy their own machine after seeing how much money mine brings in. I offered them a commission, but I don't really care if they take it or not. The place is doing worse now than it used to, and I think that is a reflection on the business not having as many customers and the owner being desperate. My beautiful machine (black chrome 1800 triple, 50 cent toys) with professionally chosen toys does 12 dollars in gross sales per month over the last 4 or so. If he wants that all to himself he's welcome to have it, he'll be able to pay off his machine with net profits in only a few years... I liked the location because I liked the people there, and the physical place was very convenient. If they decide they need to make 10 bucks a month for handling the machine themselves so be it, they were still good to me while I was there and I'm sorry to see their business suffer. The biggest change for me has been my outlook. I salvaged one of my best locations where I was going to get booted due to a dislike of machines by an absentee owner. He realized how much I cared about him and his business and decided he didn't want to sever that tie. Fortunately he isn't there so he doesn't have to look at our machines. I got a new location for one of the machines already, and was even invited to place another small rack. I think I love that guy! I asked him if he had something specific he really wanted and he turns me and says, "You're the expert in the business, I'll move that table that's wasting space and you put in whatever you think would be best here." I think he should teach a class in how to be intelligent. GMs thinking they know vending is like patients wanting to advise their doctor on how to perform a surgery. Even though I have way too many machines on hand, I'm feeling much better. I blasted through my final exams, even tanking on one intentionally since it was graded on a curve. My job prospects for this summer are looking good, the place I want to work is sending me a voucher to take a standard test on their dime. The weather has been somewhat cold, but is beautiful compared to the last 4 years. That's good enough for me! My classes are all online next term so I don't have to waste gas driving in, or drive much in the cold There were some pretty rough weeks in there for me lately, but I think I've turned the corner now. Thank you for everyone who took the time to come in here and reach out to me. It helped me get through it and gain a new perspective. Perhaps the biggest mental shift for me was realizing that larger vendors are out locating every day, my numbers for landing locations are still competitive, and getting 10 new locations is hardly a huge ordeal. Some of these vendors do it in a day, and it's something I should be capable of doing in the span of a week when spring comes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will.vend Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 I'm feeling much better. Excellent news! Im glad you feel better! If you ever need anything just ask! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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