moondog Posted June 8, 2013 Author Share Posted June 8, 2013 I have RVV500s and I haven't had any issues with them at all, how old is the one your having issues with?. It's seven plus years old Ron. The serial number starts with 200548 - the year and week it was made. A number of the columns don't have the correct tension on the product pushers anymore so I called Royal to see about replacing all the springs as I could not figure out how to open up the trays short of breaking them. But the probable culprit right now is the harness - that's the last thing I would of thought of. Good thing we've got this forum. I'm betting it took Walt a lot of time and frustration to figure this one out the first time. Ps. I've got the NG model as compared to the newer Generation II. I've read some of both manuals and they seem quite similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walta Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 If it is the harness the problems will happen to different selections at random. If it is always the same selections we need to look elsewhere. Did you get a chance to answer my 3 questions? Walta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moondog Posted June 8, 2013 Author Share Posted June 8, 2013 If it is the harness the problems will happen to different selections at random. If it is always the same selections we need to look elsewhere. Did you get a chance to answer my 3 questions? Walta So far it's always the same three selections Walt - I'm headed down there early next week to do your tests and swap the trays around like the Royal tech suggested. This location's about 40 miles out so I'm seriously considering pulling this machine back to my shop and putting another machine in there temporarily if I have a lot of repairs to do on it. I'm also going to check all the harness connections on the cup board. Hopefully I can get it fixed on site but those springs are going to take awhile and some of them are downright anemic at this point. I don't want to work my plunger motor to death - optimally, it should only have to pull each can through the gates and into the cup. The Royal tech seemed pretty certain that your original diagnosis was correct and it didn't take him very long to come to that conclusion. Apparently the spring loaded pusher plate has nothing to do with the actual vend process and is only there to make less work for the plunger motor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moondog Posted June 9, 2013 Author Share Posted June 9, 2013 With out trying to be a smartaZZ! Like the lil woman told me and I'm quoting her. The thing that pushes the whayoumacallit that turns the little do hicky don't work! All I could do was beat my head against the wall and groan! mike Mike, I hope to hell those are mud boots in your new avatar - if you're wearing white rhinestone cowboy boots, people ARE going to talk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CajunCandy Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 Now moonbeam, I swear I'm all man these are my gator boots, crawfish boots, shrimper boots also know as Delcambre rebokes. Only true men can wear these and not be told a single word! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moondog Posted June 12, 2013 Author Share Posted June 12, 2013 After reading the manual your machine was made in 2005 in week 48. That makes it a NG model. Like photo D3 1 Start by tightening the set screw in the motor pulley number 15 in d3 photo. Did the screw move yes or no. 2 Remove fuse lower left corner of the door. 3 move carriage up and down left and right it should move smoothly with little resistance. Yes or no. (I have had to replace bad motors that did not turn easily) 4 Lift the carriage to ¼ inch from the top clamp the Y or U/D belt with spring type paper clip. Move the X or L/R belt to the far left is the gap still ¼ inch now to the far right is the gap still ¼ inch. Is the gap the same yes or no 5 Remove clip lower carriage reinstall fuse. Please reply with the yes / no answers 1,3 and 4 Walta Well, I was out there again today and ran those tests. 1. The screw was tight 3. I could move the cup right to left easily but it didn't want to go up and down easily 4 Spacing was good I swapped out one of the trays with the problem column and the problem went away with the good tray while and moved to the new location where I installed the bad tray, I could not get the top of the cup off after removing the three screws - does it lift up or slide out? My harness appears to be the two piece one with the B connection between the looped part that attaches to the cup and the piece that extends up the right side of the machine. I've got the bad tray here (back at my shop) and will open it up tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walta Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 Are you sure the fuse was out before you tried to move the carriage? I have replaced 2 bad U/D motors with the power off the motor should turn with little resistance. Bad motors are stiff. Your motor may be on it is way out. Not that it matters but the harnesses are 1 piece or 3 pieces yours seems to be the newer 3 piece type. Walta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moondog Posted June 12, 2013 Author Share Posted June 12, 2013 Are you sure the fuse was out before you tried to move the carriage? I have replaced 2 bad U/D motors with the power off the motor should turn with little resistance. Bad motors are stiff. Your motor may be on it is way out. Not that it matters but the harnesses are 1 piece or 3 pieces yours seems to be the newer 3 piece type. Walta I think I'm going to bit the bullet and swap this machine out with another one temporarily so I can work on it. It's like walking on eggs trying to fix it onsite - if I do the wrong thing they won't have any drinks at all. The manual seems to be skipping some of the more fundamental things like how to remove the vend cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZVendor Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 Yeah, as much as we laud the US manufacturers and their tech support, I have found that not a single one of them writes a manual for a repair tech to follow. Dixie is actually the worst by issuing Bevmax manuals with part numbers "To Be Determined" or showing a photo of a part with no associated P/N or callout, or only a P/N and "Not shown" listed by the P/N. I sometimes think DN uses people who have ADD to write their manuals. Royal obviously has a way-too-complicated machine as does Vendo with the Vue, and they have created a hornet's nest of problems and the associated updates and fixes that have flooded after the release of these machines. On a side note, I think you need to bite the bullet and purchase 3 new cells and be done with it. Since the problem follows the cells you have worn out or defective cells, pushers, screw drives, whatever. I would give in and buy new cells. The harness should be done as the 2 pc. or 3 pc. harnesses were stupid to begin with and you need a reliable harness, but the harness itsn't the problem if the problem follows the cells as you move you shelves around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moondog Posted June 12, 2013 Author Share Posted June 12, 2013 Yeah, as much as we laud the US manufacturers and their tech support, I have found that not a single one of them writes a manual for a repair tech to follow. Dixie is actually the worst by issuing Bevmax manuals with part numbers "To Be Determined" or showing a photo of a part with no associated P/N or callout, or only a P/N and "Not shown" listed by the P/N. I sometimes think DN uses people who have ADD to write their manuals. Royal obviously has a way-too-complicated machine as does Vendo with the Vue, and they have created a hornet's nest of problems and the associated updates and fixes that have flooded after the release of these machines. On a side note, I think you need to bite the bullet and purchase 3 new cells and be done with it. Since the problem follows the cells you have worn out or defective cells, pushers, screw drives, whatever. I would give in and buy new cells. The harness should be done as the 2 pc. or 3 pc. harnesses were stupid to begin with and you need a reliable harness, but the harness itsn't the problem if the problem follows the cells as you move you shelves around. If that's the case, I may be looking at a lot of cells - I have quite a number of springs that are not doing their job at this point. I'll be opening up one tray this evening and see what's really in there - hopefully I can get some replacement parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moondog Posted June 13, 2013 Author Share Posted June 13, 2013 Are you sure the fuse was out before you tried to move the carriage? I have replaced 2 bad U/D motors with the power off the motor should turn with little resistance. Bad motors are stiff. Your motor may be on it is way out. Not that it matters but the harnesses are 1 piece or 3 pieces yours seems to be the newer 3 piece type. Walta Yeah, as much as we laud the US manufacturers and their tech support, I have found that not a single one of them writes a manual for a repair tech to follow. Dixie is actually the worst by issuing Bevmax manuals with part numbers "To Be Determined" or showing a photo of a part with no associated P/N or callout, or only a P/N and "Not shown" listed by the P/N. I sometimes think DN uses people who have ADD to write their manuals. Royal obviously has a way-too-complicated machine as does Vendo with the Vue, and they have created a hornet's nest of problems and the associated updates and fixes that have flooded after the release of these machines. On a side note, I think you need to bite the bullet and purchase 3 new cells and be done with it. Since the problem follows the cells you have worn out or defective cells, pushers, screw drives, whatever. I would give in and buy new cells. The harness should be done as the 2 pc. or 3 pc. harnesses were stupid to begin with and you need a reliable harness, but the harness itsn't the problem if the problem follows the cells as you move you shelves around. Well, I got the cells apart and pulled the front face off of one - it just pops off with an Exacto knife or something similar. Inside is a band spring about 1/4" wide that's attached to the spiral rod. If you do this, be very careful as the whole thing will fall out and if you lose that little gear on the rod it won't be good. I took some pictures but it's too much black on black to show much. I also lubricated the whole shebang with Boeshield, a Boeing Aviation lubricant and the pusher plates slide much better. I'll call tomorrow and see what those springs cost and have their tech support walk me through taking the cup apart - as long as that machine is onsite, I cannot mess that cup up. I'm still not convinced that the harness is good but it may well have been replaced as it's not the one piece unit Walt mentioned. The three wires leading to the cup are roughly the size of 12 gauge electrical wire so I'm thinking that they're stranded which would lessen the chance of them breaking due to excessive movement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walta Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Your harness must have been replaced sometime after 2009 when Royal released the 3 piece harness. There are 9 deferent 22 gage wires going to the cup assembly. They spent money on high quality wire very soft and finely stranded. Hold on to your wallet Royal is always so proud of their parts. Please clean the old lube out of the cells before you put them back in service. My favorite cleaner is denatured alcohol. Walta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moondog Posted June 13, 2013 Author Share Posted June 13, 2013 Your harness must have been replaced sometime after 2009 when Royal released the 3 piece harness. There are 9 deferent 22 gage wires going to the cup assembly. They spent money on high quality wire very soft and finely stranded. Hold on to your wallet Royal is always so proud of their parts. Please clean the old lube out of the cells before you put them back in service. My favorite cleaner is denatured alcohol. Walta So far, I've seen just a smattering of the old lube - looks to be a sort of bearing packer, kind of an off white color I'm calling today about the band springs - and yes, I'm bracing myself on the price. I'm just ornery enough to find them elsewhere if their price is too steep. The other thing I could do to increase the tension would be to add a few more band wraps to the spiral shaft before reinstalling. Ps. The Boeshield is everything WD40 is not - expensive stuff but well worth the price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZVendor Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 The grease you see is probably white lithium grease. Don't wrap the spring tighter as there is probably a specific tension it needs and you don't want too much tension. Just pay the piper and get the parts you need from Royal (through a distributor, of course) and be done with it. The high price is primarily distributor markup, but I haven't seen their prices to be out of range with most others like AP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moondog Posted June 18, 2013 Author Share Posted June 18, 2013 Update on this: I've now cleaned three trays completely and relubed with Boeshield. I popped open the front covers on each column and removed the spiral rod so I could clean in there - used a dowel with a cloth taped around it and alcohol. This took about 5 minutes per column so I'm going to have some time invested before I'm through with all 40 columns. So far, the columns that were not vending are now working fine but I still get the nagging feeling that this might be an intermittent thing if the harness is going bad. I've performed an actual vend on each column twice - talk about drudgery. It reminds me of the time I stood in line for "It's A Small World" because it was my date's favorite ride definitely not an "E Ticket". If only those motors were just a little faster. I'm hoping that this will do the trick as it seems that getting those tracks clean under the pusher plate may have been the issue - time will tell. Ps. The band springs are actually called "Constant Force Springs" - I haven't gotten a price from Royal on these but they run about 3 bucks each online. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mission vending Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 I'm hoping that this will do the trick as it seems that getting those tracks clean under the pusher plate may have been the issue - time will tell. I've learned as well that a little extra TLC on these glassfronts goes a long way to keep them reliable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moondog Posted June 19, 2013 Author Share Posted June 19, 2013 I've learned as well that a little extra TLC on these glassfronts goes a long way to keep them reliable. Yep, It's funny though - the columns looked fairly clean but the ability of that pusher plate to move smoothly is apparently critical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walta Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 It is good to hear you found the problem. I do not think the springs will be a problem. If the ends don’t break they will be fine. I still think the U/D motor is on its way out. If you got it in the shop be sure to clean the condenser. Walta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moondog Posted June 19, 2013 Author Share Posted June 19, 2013 It is good to hear you found the problem. I do not think the springs will be a problem. If the ends don’t break they will be fine. I still think the U/D motor is on its way out. If you got it in the shop be sure to clean the condenser. Walta Thanks Walt, I'm with you in that I'm not convinced I've cured all the ills - these intermittent problems can be a golpher to isolate. So far the machine's still on site, but if I do get it back here you can be sure I'll do the whole nine yards on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treadmill Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 Anymore updates? Is machine now running properly? Inquiring minds want to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moondog Posted June 27, 2013 Author Share Posted June 27, 2013 Anymore updates? Is machine now running properly? Inquiring minds want to know. I'm just finishing up the process of thoroughly cleaning the columns in each tray. It's allowing the pusher plates to move much more smoothly where before they would hang up at certain points along their slide path. If you have one of these you'll understand what I'm saying here. My current theory is that the plunger motor is not strong enough to overcome these snags and can't pull the product into the cup with the pusher plate hanging up. I have currently fixed the three problem columns using this method and am doing all the trays as a precaution. Basically, I'm wiping down each tray with hot water first, then alcohol and finally spraying the column with Boeshield, making sure to lubricate the tracks and the spiral rod thoroughly. As I said, this is all theoretical so I'm keeping my fingers crossed and monitoring the machine closely. I've taken the advise to not mess with the Constant Force Springs. The odd thing is that the columns were not really dirty and the rag I used to wipe them down came up clean so I'm thinking that what they really needed was the lubrication - again just a theory. If or when I learn more I'll keep you all posted as this is kind of new territory for most of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feral Vending Mechanic Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 One of my least favorite modern vending machines to work on, ever. ( Along with the Vue30/40, which is arguably worse. ) One thing I've found about these RVVs is that they are very, very, very sensitive to being PERFECTLY EXACTLY LEVEL. The slightest bit unlevel can mess up it's ability to reach certain cells. When these R500s work, they do work quite well. But when they mess up, they're a pain in the neck to diagnose, let alone fix. Give me a good old stacker ( or Bevmax ) any day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moondog Posted July 15, 2013 Author Share Posted July 15, 2013 One of my least favorite modern vending machines to work on, ever. ( Along with the Vue30/40, which is arguably worse. ) One thing I've found about these RVVs is that they are very, very, very sensitive to being PERFECTLY EXACTLY LEVEL. The slightest bit unlevel can mess up it's ability to reach certain cells. When these R500s work, they do work quite well. But when they mess up, they're a pain in the neck to diagnose, let alone fix. Give me a good old stacker ( or Bevmax ) any day. Good timing - I was just about to update this thread. As of my last posting I was using Boeshield to lubricate the columns. Since doing that on a couple of shelves, I've noticed that the Boeshield, while still working, seems to lose some of it's viscosity in the colder temperatures. I have since switched to using Liquid Wrench white lithium grease in the spray can and, despite smelling like a gas station for a couple of days, seems like a better product for this purpose. All of the selections have been working in this machine since I've relubricated them so hopefully, this was all much ado about nothing. ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, and yeah, I prefer the biggest stacker I can get Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZVendor Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Moondog, you might want to try food-grade silicone spray. It stays slick in cold environments and can be used where it contacts food containers. It's what I use to lubricate the Bevmax slides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feral Vending Mechanic Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Yep. Food grade silicone all the way. Works like a champ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.