kdub3821 Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Im new to soda/snack/coffee/sandwitch wheel machine. I work in a steel mill with a big outside vending company. The vending company is really bad. Poor stocking, dirty machines, out of date product, and employees constantly lose money. I want to take it over, but I have never done a big account contract. What should I put in the contract? What is a good commission? How long should I make the contract for? The big vender has a in house sandwitch salad food employees that make all of there product. I will not be able to offer that. What should I put in the sandwitch wheel or where can I buy pre made food at? My last question is about the coffee machines. Where can I get the powder mixes from? Are they hard to fix if something breaks? I know that is a lot of questions. Thanks for your time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mission vending Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Im new to soda/snack/coffee/sandwitch wheel machine. I work in a steel mill with a big outside vending company. The vending company is really bad. Poor stocking, dirty machines, out of date product, and employees constantly lose money. I want to take it over, but I have never done a big account contract. What should I put in the contract? What is a good commission? How long should I make the contract for? The big vender has a in house sandwitch salad food employees that make all of there product. I will not be able to offer that. What should I put in the sandwitch wheel or where can I buy pre made food at? My last question is about the coffee machines. Where can I get the powder mixes from? Are they hard to fix if something breaks? I know that is a lot of questions. Thanks for your time. Glad to see you giving full line a go. You asked for advice so I'm to offer some even though you probably won't want to hear it. This is not a beginning vendor kind of account, even assuming you can get the account you will be taking on a significant financial risk with little experience and I would not recommend chasing this one at this time. That said, probably your best chance would be to go the micro market option instead of vending so you could offer more variety and be more flexible in responding to requests. I also doubt that if you became the vendor that you would also be able to stay on as a employee. Not trying to be a negative Nancy but that is very likely the reality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moondog Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Im new to soda/snack/coffee/sandwitch wheel machine. I work in a steel mill with a big outside vending company. The vending company is really bad. Poor stocking, dirty machines, out of date product, and employees constantly lose money. I want to take it over, but I have never done a big account contract. What should I put in the contract? What is a good commission? How long should I make the contract for? The big vender has a in house sandwitch salad food employees that make all of there product. I will not be able to offer that. What should I put in the sandwitch wheel or where can I buy pre made food at? My last question is about the coffee machines. Where can I get the powder mixes from? Are they hard to fix if something breaks? I know that is a lot of questions. Thanks for your time. This is way over your head - far too much for a newbie to handle. It's sad that the big company is doing such a poor job but that's part of our advantage as small independents, our service tends to be much better. The main problem for you would be the food and snack machines as you'd need a larger base to really make these profitable - hard to manage with just one machine each. Coffee machines require a lot of maintenance (which is why I avoid them). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdub3821 Posted January 8, 2014 Author Share Posted January 8, 2014 I don't think this will change anyone's view but by new I meant new to a big account. I have seven soda machines, a snack machine , and 20 bulk candy toy machines. Two of the seven soda I own. The others are from my Pepsi 3rd party account. I planned on replacing what the other vender had with two Pepsi third party machines and one of my own for coke products. Buying a new or gently used snack, coffee, and cold food machine. The extra snack machine will help me with product loss from the one I have now. I was going to use soup hot pockets hard boiled eggs cereal like the other vender did I just didn't know how to replace the sandwitchs. Or set up a contract of this size Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mission vending Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 I don't think this will change anyone's view but by new I meant new to a big account. I have seven soda machines, a snack machine , and 20 bulk candy toy machines. Two of the seven soda I own. The others are from my Pepsi 3rd party account. I planned on replacing what the other vender had with two Pepsi third party machines and one of my own for coke products. Buying a new or gently used snack, coffee, and cold food machine. The extra snack machine will help me with product loss from the one I have now. I was going to use soup hot pockets hard boiled eggs cereal like the other vender did I just didn't know how to replace the sandwitchs. Or set up a contract of this size For the food you can get hot pockets, burritos, burgers and other entree's through Vistar that you can sell as either frozen or refridgerated. Again you can probably offer better variety that way but you will have to convince them that the fresh made food is not imperative. Changing this dynamic will probably be the hardest part of putting a deal together. One way to sell them on this idea is to add offering ice cream, but again you are jumping into some deep water here and adding ice cream only adds to that. Again, I think a micro market here would be a fantastic opportunity. It sounds like you have enough people here to make this work and it will give you a lot more flexibility to be able to bring in things to offset the fresh food. As for the contract, there really is not a set standard in larger locations like this. They might or might not be getting a commission. Heck they might even be paying a subsidy to have the fresh food option available. You are going to need to know what is going on with the agreement so that you can tailor your offer to what they need and want, or at least think they need and want. If you can get some of the info I think we would be in a much better position to give you good advice on what and how to make a offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TKK Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Your too new ud have too many stales Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CajunCandy Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Im new to soda/snack/coffee/sandwitch wheel machine. I work in a steel mill with a big outside vending company. The vending company is really bad. Poor stocking, dirty machines, out of date product, and employees constantly lose money. I want to take it over, but I have never done a big account contract. What should I put in the contract? What is a good commission? How long should I make the contract for? The big vender has a in house sandwitch salad food employees that make all of there product. I will not be able to offer that. What should I put in the sandwitch wheel or where can I buy pre made food at? My last question is about the coffee machines. Where can I get the powder mixes from? Are they hard to fix if something breaks? I know that is a lot of questions. Thanks for your time. As with me at the company I work at it is called (conflict of interest.) They don't want me making off the people I work with! lol! Were 24/7 days a week, and 50 people a crew plus! When I retire from there watch out! It is all mine! mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reel Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 I mostly agree with Moondog, however we again expanded our operation to full line last year after buying out another opposition and now we operate coffee machines as well. I find coffee machines work perfectly when they are serviced and cleaned on a weekly basis, we run bean to cup Azkoyen and Saeco machines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdub3821 Posted January 12, 2014 Author Share Posted January 12, 2014 Well my question now is how do I get to the point where I can take on this account? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJT Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Let me ask a few questions before I give you my thoughts. I will say this, I have a varied opinion if new people can handle these type of accounts because IMO some new people can do it, some new people can do it with the proper guidance, and some have no business trying it at all. Even some "mid level" drink snack vendors have no business trying these type accounts. Each situation is different from person to person. My main concern on the front end without knowing your particular situation about your ability is the account worth pursuing in the first place. Even this will vary from operator to operator. What I mean is if a operator has plenty of equipment sitting and dosent have to take on debt then it may make sense for them to do it. If someone else has to take on debt it may not make sense. How many employees? How many shifts? Break down of product pricing? (ie, price of each type items sold - chips, candy, pastry, cookies, bottles, cans, etc) Break down of machines on site? (ie, how many of each machine - bottle machines, can, machines, cold food, coffee, etc Any extra equipment provided by the current company? (ie, ice makers, visa coolers, microwaves, micro stands, etc) Do they currently get a comission? Do you know who is the decission maker for the vending? Do you have the capital or credit ability to buy the equipment, inventory, etc These are a good place to start but their will be more question to follow. Copy and paste all questions and answer each one. Then I can give you my thoughts on what I think you should do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moondog Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Well my question now is how do I get to the point where I can take on this account? Given that you already have one snack machine running, you're probably aware of the problem with stales and your inability to buy case lots of product. I'd say that once you've got a half dozen snack machines operating, you'd be in a better position to make the jump to a fresh food machine as you could meet the volumes required to use a Vistar as your supplier. Most of the vendors here see the fresh food machines as a necessary evil for securing the larger accounts and not big money makers in their own right. Since you're onsite, the coffee machine would probably be less of a problem for you than it would be for someone like myself.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdub3821 Posted January 12, 2014 Author Share Posted January 12, 2014 I will buy all the machines from my profits from my other machines and take out a small loan to cover the rest. Employees are somewhere between 50-100. It's a 24 hour operation. Currently has three soda one coffe one snack one cold food machine. Bottles sold all types of chips gum and pastrys. I don't know anything about the current contract or who handles it yet. I work there as an outside contractor. I'm there often. I planned on stocking the area everyday before work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJT Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Without knowing current pricing and if a commission is being paid hard to give you better answers to your questions. Any extra equipment provided by the current company like microwaves, visa coolers, micro stands, etc?? I forgot to ask this question in my first list. How many days a week do the current company service this account. What size food machine? How much actual cold food is in the cold food machine? Is it all fresh or is some of it a mix of prepackaged like pizzas, Hot pockets, etc. Does the food machine have filler items in it like juices, canned micro meals, canned fruit, etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdub3821 Posted January 12, 2014 Author Share Posted January 12, 2014 Serviced Mon-fri no weekends. I don't know the size of machine. It's big. The machine is filled to the max everyday with a little of everything mentioned plus salads no juices . The mill does complain about it not being filled on the weekends. Right after lunch it could be restocked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJT Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 No offense but I cant help you with some answers if you dont answer all the questions. You keep missing questions and we are having to go back and fourth and I still cant answer the big question if I dont have all the answers. Without knowing current pricing and if a commission is being paid hard to give you better answers to your questions. Any extra equipment provided by the current company like microwaves, visa coolers, micro stands, etc?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walta Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 If the machines are as bad as you say, there is likely a good reason. Certainly the current vendor has no fear of losing the stop. Let’s guess why. 1 The mill operates in more than one state and all branches are under contract with a national company like Canteen. 2 The decision maker is getting a kick back under the table. 3 The current vender is the son in law of the decision maker . If you get past that give us 3 good reasons why the decision maker should give someone with no equipment no experience and a full time job a chance. Do you have 20k around to get this off the ground? My goal is not to rain on your parade. You need to understand, this a dog eat dog business and there is likely a good reason thing are the way they are. Also understand 6 month in most mills will but 20 years wear on a machine. Walta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJT Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 walta, With all due respect I agree with some of what you have said but not everything and I will explain why. 1. The mill operates in more than one state and all branches are under contract with a national company like Canteen. Not typical in mill settings but possible. I see more "national contracts" with retail chains like Lowes, Home Depot, etc, nursing homes, car wash chains Take Energizer or PPG as the example does not have a national contract 2.The decision maker is getting a kick back under the table. Maybe back in the day but again not typical this day and time. They might get some perks like golf games, race tickets, ballgame tickets, etc but cash under the table I highly doubt it. Canteen has too much to loose this day and time getting caught at that game from a tax stand point, unfair trade practices, etc. Also most decision makers that are just "working for the man" it is not worth them getting caught at it since it could be considered embezzlement or at a minimum employee theft. 3 The current vender is the son in law of the decision maker. Again, possible but pretty rare. If you get past that give us 3 good reasons why the decision maker should give someone with no equipment no experience and a full time job a chance. 1. Maybe this is a small town mill that likes working with local folks. 2. Because he is doing vending currently (on a small level) he can "sell" them on the idea that he can service them better and is working to go fulltime at vending. Offer to service them on Saturdays because they are not currently getting that and would like it. 3. Maybe he can propose new or like new equipment along with something they don’t currently have like a frozen/ice cream machine. 4. With the proper approach and the right proposal that makes sense to the decision maker they might give him a chance at it. Do you have 20k around to get this off the ground? Better question beyond that does the account justify the capital layout to begin with. You need to understand, this a dog eat dog business and there is likely a good reason thing are the way they are. I have seen where it is like that sometimes for no good reason other than no one has approached them with something that wanted to make them switch. Also understand 6 month in most mills will but 20 years wear on a machine. Again not exactly true. Yes they can get "abused" more just because of the people working there. Depending on where the machines are at in the plant and how they are maintained on a daily bases will play a big part in how well they hold up. I have seen machines in plants last years that still looked and worked fine. I also have seen some that got abused and looked pretty bad. With all that said, there are some challenges not only in getting the account but also from a logistical standpoint of him doing the account to begin with. An example is with his full time job he gets a service call on a down food machine and it is 15 minutes before their lunch break. Or third shift call at 3:00am in the morning with a down frozen machine and he needs to be at his "regular job" at 7:00am. He may have a problem getting the correct products to properly service the account like the cold food. Like I said not trying to "talk" him into doing the account but think a realistic look at both sides are in order to give him and others looking to do the same as him the benefit of the doubt. I think anything is possible with the right knowledge and know how if the person is cut out to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdub3821 Posted January 12, 2014 Author Share Posted January 12, 2014 The mill is not national. The company servicing is a big local company so I don't think anyone is related or juiced in. I have the soda machine already. I would just need the cold food, coffee, microwave, and snack machine. I can get all of that for around 10k from a local vending machine company. I'm confident I could get the account because of poor service. The machines are broken more then they work and for the last two months the vender comes so late that no one at lunch time can by from the cold food machine. Plus offering weekends would help. I just wanted to know if anyone had an account like this and what percentage I should offer? I wish I could tell you guys what the current percentage was but I do not know at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJT Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Then to answer your question the percentage to offer is none unless it is necessary to make the deal happen. No need to offer anything until you know if it is needed. Also it depends on current pricing if it makes sense or not with or without a commission. However there is more to it than just that one question (unless you already know the answers) to the questions and thoughts all these experienced guys have given. Have you though about how you would handle the service calls I mentioned? Do you have a service vehicle that can handle all the product, including cold food? The equipment you are talking about getting is it refurb equipment or just some used equipment from another vending company? Unless they are just fed up (I don’t mean the workers I mean the decision maker) selling them only on “better service” may be a hard sell. It may take a few different things to get them to switch like better equipment, an ice cream machine, a few extra microwaves, another drink machine, weekend service, better product selection or something they are not getting like juices, healthy selections, if they are not getting a commission then maybe offer one, better pricing, etc the list goes on. You have one shot at a proposal and you need to know what will make them choose you before you submit the proposal. You need to gather all the info possible from the decision maker and figure out what makes sense to you and them to make a good deal happen. The key is offering just enough to get them to switch but still make sense to do it to begin with. A few post up you were ready to move on from this account but wanted to know how to get to the level of getting and handling accounts like this so all this info is relevent to help you figure that out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwi Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 I mostly agree with Moondog, however we again expanded our operation to full line last year after buying out another opposition and now we operate coffee machines as well. I find coffee machines work perfectly when they are serviced and cleaned on a weekly basis, we run bean to cup Azkoyen and Saeco machines. Hi Ron.. glad to see that you have made the move to the dark side of coffee vending. All we have to do now is talk our mate moondog into coming across to the dark side to join us. Which model Azkoyen and Saeco's are you using? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moondog Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 Hi Ron.. glad to see that you have made the move to the dark side of coffee vending. All we have to do now is talk our mate moondog into coming across to the dark side to join us. Which model Azkoyen and Saeco's are you using? No thanks Kiwi - with all that "crappy weather" you've just gotten too used to the misery - I think I'll stick with the force as I'm far too lazy for the "dark side" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mission vending Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 No thanks Kiwi - with all that "crappy weather" you've just gotten too used to the misery - I think I'll stick with the force as I'm far too lazy for the "dark side" No thanks Kiwi - with all that "crappy weather" you've just gotten too used to the misery - I think I'll stick with the force as I'm far too lazy for the "dark side" Well at least kiwi is posting again...... must be out of the doghouse and back inside with internet access. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moondog Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 Well at least kiwi is posting again...... must be out of the doghouse and back inside with internet access. Wifi on the couch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwi Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Well at least kiwi is posting again...... must be out of the doghouse and back inside with internet access. Wifi on the couch? Even the wife got a laugh out of these comments.. I did buy myself a ipad for xmas just incase I get myself into trouble again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reel Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 Bean to cup machines, Azkoyen City and Tempo, Saeco Rubino and the really large high Saeco machine I don't know the model as I don't actually visit or service them. What models do you run and what bean brand?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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