kiwi Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 I have thought about a colibri. Are they good? They are good machine but they don't seem to be as popular in the US as the Saeco sg200.. I don't own any Saeco's so I don't think it is fair for me to say which is the better model for you to use but I would not hesitate to recommend the Colibri for the type of site you are describing. They are an older design & are slowly being replaced here by the newer Krea & Solista models which Necta do they are still what I would class as a workhorse machine. They are a lot different to the K-cup or Pod machine systems that everyone else is recommending but the main difference is that everything would be contained inside the machine. If I was going to go down the line of using a Pod machine I would use a system that scans the Pod's so that people can't bring there own Pod's to use on your machine. In say that.. you still can't stop people from taking cups & sugar that you would leave out. Keep in mind that I am not from the US & the coffee industry here is a lot different to what it is there.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryChris Posted April 30, 2014 Author Share Posted April 30, 2014 The question is... what makes better coffee? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwi Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 The question is... what makes better coffee? I have never had a coffee from a Keurig K-Cup as they are not sold here so it is hard for me to answer that question. We do have the Lavazza Blue Pod & Nespresso Capsule system here but comparing them to a fresh bean to cup machine is like comparing apples to oranges to me.. Any machine using fresh beans should make better quality coffee in my opinion but it is alot more complex than that. There are alot of variables that go into making a good cup of coffee & not following these will definitely effect your end result. Pod/Capsule Systems eliminate some of these steps so you do not make these mistakes but the pods/capsules cost more than using raw ingredients like fresh beans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mission vending Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 I was responding to frcory. I have thought about a colibri. Are they good? I had a few of them, its been 3-4 years since I have had them but they really good machines and I think they made much better coffee than a full size machine. The only reason I don't still have them is that the company got bought out and I got the boot and I sold them due to a very crowded storage. One had around 9000 vends on it with only occasional cup jam from the cups sticking together. If you go with this or ANY cup serve machine keeping them clean is the key. The amount of time you spend cleaning and checking the machine is inversely proportional to the number of service calls you get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwi Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 If you go with this or ANY cup serve machine keeping them clean is the key. The amount of time you spend cleaning and checking the machine is inversely proportional to the number of service calls you get. This is the best advise anyone can give you no matter which coffee machine you decide to go with... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reel Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 Chris, We operate bean coffee machines and in my opinion I believe that Saeco makes the best coffee, some of our Saeco machines are in very busy high profile locations and turns over hundreds of dollars each week and rarely causes any problems at all. In saying this the Azkoyen is a great machine and very well built, however I think the Saeco makes a better coffee. The key to coffee machines is regular weekly servicing and cleaning. To avoid product sticking after washing we dry with a cloth then use a hair dryer to dry the parts thoroughly, this is a good tip if you don't already use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryChris Posted May 3, 2014 Author Share Posted May 3, 2014 Thanks reel. I predict this account will do 50-150 vends pee week. I have serviced one saeco machine in my life. It was coffee on top with beverages on bottom. They may have been two machines but the coffee unit was small. I'm sort if leary about saeco due to repairs And parts. Is this machine good for that? Also, I think I can get as high as $1/coffee. What is the cost per unit on the saeco? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwi Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 What is the cost per unit on the saeco? Are you referring to cost per cup? This will depend on the price of your consumables.. beans-milk-chocolate-cups-ect.. You can then calculate your costs depending on your throw weights. e.g: If you were paying $20/kg for your beans & throwing 8.5 grams/cup your cost would be 17 cents per cup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryChris Posted May 3, 2014 Author Share Posted May 3, 2014 Are you referring to cost per cup? This will depend on the price of your consumables.. beans-milk-chocolate-cups-ect.. You can then calculate your costs depending on your throw weights. e.g: If you were paying $20/kg for your beans & throwing 8.5 grams/cup your cost would be 17 cents per cup I was referring to the cost per cup. I'm just not sure how to measure it all. 17 is great though. I want to offer premium coffee at a premium price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris in bc Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 I use these coffee brewers; www.cafection.com I have about 20 of these.......one has over 50,000 vends. Never had a service call! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loach33 Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 I use these coffee brewers; www.cafection.com I have about 20 of these.......one has over 50,000 vends. Never had a service call! Which model do you have? I don't see validators in the pics. Which models offer the validator or coin mech? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris in bc Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 I use the GALLERIA...I just bought 2 more. They arrived ready to go. You install the coin mech inside the machine. If you want a bill accept you need to order the "bill acceptor kit". It is installed on the left side of the machine. It looks like a shoe box attached to the side of the machine. The coffee is great, no coffee grinds in the cup and you can adjust the strength, cup fill, temperature etc. Great machines, I have them in offices, manuf, fab shops.....zero problems! No cheap plastic parts! Any customers that complain about their coffee, hot choc, French van I can adjust the strength internally in about 2 minutes......complaint taken care of. Fresh ground coffee, beans are sold everywhere. I use Starbucks, Peets and other brands! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loach33 Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 I use the GALLERIA...I just bought 2 more. They arrived ready to go. You install the coin mech inside the machine. If you want a bill accept you need to order the "bill acceptor kit". It is installed on the left side of the machine. It looks like a shoe box attached to the side of the machine. The coffee is great, no coffee grinds in the cup and you can adjust the strength, cup fill, temperature etc. Great machines, I have them in offices, manuf, fab shops.....zero problems! No cheap plastic parts! Any customers that complain about their coffee, hot choc, French van I can adjust the strength internally in about 2 minutes......complaint taken care of. Fresh ground coffee, beans are sold everywhere. I use Starbucks, Peets and other brands! I just checked that out online. Man, it seems like it will do everything a LARGE machine will do but will sit on a counter and look great. Can I ask a few more questions..... I'm not into coffee yet but I have not taken locations because they wanted coffee and I didnt want to get into it. That's before I really realized there are options other than a big machine. About how much do these cost? What's the av cost per cup? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryChris Posted May 6, 2014 Author Share Posted May 6, 2014 I just checked that out online. Man, it seems like it will do everything a LARGE machine will do but will sit on a counter and look great. Can I ask a few more questions..... I'm not into coffee yet but I have not taken locations because they wanted coffee and I didnt want to get into it. That's before I really realized there are options other than a big machine. About how much do these cost? What's the av cost per cup? Thanks I would also like to know how much these cost as well as the cost per cup and how much your customers pay per cup. I found one internet price online and it was huge!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loach33 Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 I would also like to know how much these cost as well as the cost per cup and how much your customers pay per cup. I found one internet price online and it was huge!!!! Yikes. I just saw that price too. Was not expecting that for a countertop machine. Maybe those are huge markups? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZVendor Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Here is a copy of the new lease program that Betson just started for the Cafection brewers: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwi Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 I would also like to know how much these cost as well as the cost per cup and how much your customers pay per cup. I found one internet price online and it was huge!!!! Chris, you need to decide what product & cup size you are going to use before you can work out your cost per cup. To give you an example: If you want to work out your cost per cup for a hot chocolate you would need to know how much you were paying per bag. I don't know your cost in the US so I will use $20/kg for this example. 1kg=1000g so $20 divided by 1000 = 0.02 per gram 8oz cup x 16g chocolate - 16 x 0.02 = 0.32 cents per cup 10oz cup x 20g chocolate - 20 x 0.02 = 0.40 cents per cup I hope this makes sense.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwi Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Here is a copy of the new lease program that Betson just started for the Cafection brewers: Betson Cafection Lease Program.jpg That pricing seem high.. Galleria: $143 x 36 months = $5148 I have no idea of your finance rate is.. could someone please tell me what the going rate is & what the machine(s) cost to purchase? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris in bc Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 around 2 grams of coffee makes an 8 oz cup! Remember coffee is a matter of taste and opinion! The galleria has a brew strength button on the interface that customer may push prior to brewing. So if a customer wants a stronger cup of coffee, they up the strength at the user interface! My purchase price was around $5000. CAD. I ordered a chute kit. A chute kit funnels grinds into a trash can below the machine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwi Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 around 2 grams of coffee makes an 8 oz cup! Remember coffee is a matter of taste and opinion! The galleria has a brew strength button on the interface that customer may push prior to brewing. So if a customer wants a stronger cup of coffee, they up the strength at the user interface! My purchase price was around $5000. CAD. I ordered a chute kit. A chute kit funnels grinds into a trash can below the machine. Thanks for the info Chris.. $5000 is a lot to pay for a countertop fresh bean machine here but they don't sell the cafection range here so I have nothing to compare it with.. Can you tell me how much the kikko & colibri models sell for in Canada? Only 2 grams of coffee for an 8oz cup? Are you referring to freeze dried instant.. I would throw 2 grams of instant coffee into a 8oz cup but using fresh beans you would need to throw a minimum of 8oz coffee per cup.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris in bc Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Yes, $5000 bucks is a lot of money to part with. But I ordered a few options. The base cost is around $4300. The cafection machines are well built, very simple to maintain and extremely user friendly. Like I said before...50,000 vends on an older unit...zero service calls. These machines are just plain and simple brewers. No cup drops, no sugar or coffee cream dispensers. Just the basics. The brewer is all metal, high end hoses and a metal tank. These machines do use a paper filter, real whole beans and a stainless steel burr grinder. The high end cost, very little maintenance makes it worth it. The end result is a phenomenal cup of coffee. I vend Starbucks, Guatemalan dark and a 100% Columbian coffee beans. The coffee is just awesome! Remember fresh ground is the best! I drink fresh ground coffee every day! Even Starbucks coffees taste better! I hope this helps! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwi Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 The cafection machines are well built, very simple to maintain and extremely user friendly. Like I said before...50,000 vends on an older unit...zero service calls. 50,000 vends with zero service call is extremely good going for a coffee machine.. how old is the machine & how many cups does it average per day? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feral Vending Mechanic Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 I've been working on those Cafection machines for about a year now, and they are pretty good little machines. As long as you keep them clean, they will be incredibly reliable. I've spent quite a bit of time with the AP 203/213/223 series machines *and* the National 627/637/657/677 series, and the Cafection machines blow them away for reliability. I haven't seen what NationalAPVendoCraneCo offers these days in a coffee machine, so I can't comment on that, but if someone scaled the Cafection machines up to full vending machine size, I'd be in heaven. I should add that I *love* coffee, good quality gourmet coffee, and those machines make a damn fine cup of joe.Again, I'd like to double down on something that I said, and that several others have said in this thread. KEEP YOUR COFFEE MACHINES CLEAN. VERY CLEAN. It's going to seem like a pain in the butt sometimes, but it will *seriously* cut down on your service calls. Nine times out of ten, when I get a call on a coffee machine ( and I'm currently working for one of the bigs that's way focused on coffee, so most of my service calls these days are on coffee machines ) nine times out of ten, the entire problem with the machine can be traced back to it not being kept clean enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feral Vending Mechanic Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 There is another thing that you *need* to keep in mind if you're doing coffee machines. You're going to need to think about filtering the water. ( Which ends up being another expense. ) Full sized coffee machines like the APs and Nationals all have a place to mount a filter, and various companies I've worked for over the years have had differing philosophies about changing those filters. Generally, they just get changed when they get so clogged that the water flows too slow to fill up the tank quickly enough. You will experience scale build up in the tanks of your coffee machines, and it will be worse if your water is unfiltered. ( Most of the countertop machines, like the Cafections don't come with a filter mount, you have to install your own, either mounted to the back of the machine, or under the sink. Descaling a tank that's filled with scale and lime is a pain in the butt. You're dealing with harsh chemicals, and it's probably best to not do it on location. How often you will need to descale the tank is going to depend on many factors, water quality, etc. Just something that you need to consider. There is more to coffee vending that meets the eye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mission vending Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 Descaling a tank that's filled with scale and lime is a pain in the butt. You're dealing with harsh chemicals, and it's probably best to not do it on location. How often you will need to descale the tank is going to depend on many factors, water quality, etc. Just something that you need to consider. There is more to coffee vending that meets the eye. So true, our primary water source is out of the Edwards Aquifer, a limestone formation, so our water is very very hard (lots of lime and calcium) and anything with water needs to be cleaned and descaled regularily. The filters don't remove all the lime but they do seem to catch a lot of it and a good filter will greatly extend the intervals between having to remove the machine to your shop for disassembly and cleaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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