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New to Vending - Wittern CB500 - Double Drop , not Sensor?


Deekwinters

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Hello Everyone,

 

We recently purchased a second hand Wittern CB500 for use at our rental property , as we were getting tired of a 3rd party vendor gouging our residents.    Full disclosure , I have no experience with vending machines , but I consider myself rather handy.  I have been able to get all of the front columns to successfully vend cans ( double row) and one has been adjusted to dispense 16.9 oz water bottles.   However , the back rows  consistently double drop.  I have gotten underneath , and watched the vending process , and it seems that for whatever reason , these columns are not holding just one can in the cradle , and instead is dropping 2 routinely.   I do not believe it to  be a drop sensor issue , as the 2 cans are dropping from the column at the exact same time.    However, I  did try adjusting the drop sensor , and this did not seem to help .  I have a suspicion , that there is an issue with the cradle, as when testing it , it seems to rotate and stop at different locations , and appears to be slightly off from where I think it needs to be .   Additionally, I double checked and made sure that each column was set to Can rather then bottle. 

 

Any assistance anyone could provide would be great.   I have been lurking around looking for help with this issue ,but I have not been successful thus far. 

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6 hours ago, Deekwinters said:

Hello Everyone,

 

We recently purchased a second hand Wittern CB500 for use at our rental property , as we were getting tired of a 3rd party vendor gouging our residents.    Full disclosure , I have no experience with vending machines , but I consider myself rather handy.  I have been able to get all of the front columns to successfully vend cans ( double row) and one has been adjusted to dispense 16.9 oz water bottles.   However , the back rows  consistently double drop.  I have gotten underneath , and watched the vending process , and it seems that for whatever reason , these columns are not holding just one can in the cradle , and instead is dropping 2 routinely.   I do not believe it to  be a drop sensor issue , as the 2 cans are dropping from the column at the exact same time.    However, I  did try adjusting the drop sensor , and this did not seem to help .  I have a suspicion , that there is an issue with the cradle, as when testing it , it seems to rotate and stop at different locations , and appears to be slightly off from where I think it needs to be .   Additionally, I double checked and made sure that each column was set to Can rather then bottle. 

 

Any assistance anyone could provide would be great.   I have been lurking around looking for help with this issue ,but I have not been successful thus far. 


did you set the programming to cans in the columns double vending?

Funny, but I have a cb500 (3189) giving me that same issue only on one column. No matter the setting, can vs bottle, it always double vends cans cause the auger makes a full revolution instead of stopping just short to only vend one can thus leaving the other can on the “shelf” for the next vend where it only turns about 30 degrees and finishes the full revolution. I think my issue is a faulty control board though I haven’t swapped motors around to confirm. I just put monster in the column and let it run as normal.

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These are all drop sensor issues.  It's very easy to NOT have the sensitivity set correctly, especially if you don't know what you are doing.  If you get lost in the settings then start from scratch and do it again.  Make sure the wire from the sensor to the board has no cuts or nicks in it.  If there are any then replace the sensor.  Be sure you are following the drop sensor cable as the temp sensor cable is identical.  The drop sensor cable will have a disconnected green wire at the logic board that has to be left disconnected.  Make sure the delivery chute is floating, in a sense.  It is mounted only in the front under the chute but there must be some ability for the tray to float on the rear supports.  That ensures that when a product hits the chute the sensor can pick up the vibration. Also make sure the chute liner is perfectly flat against the metal with no bubbles or warping.  The corner columns will always be the least sensitive so cans are best in those columns.  Bottles tend to be slower to begin the drop due to surface tension of the plastic and they fall too slow in the corners for the drop sensor to pick it up soon enough.

The center columns in a 3151 (CB700) also have sensor issues in the middle front columns due to the chute being bolted down at that point.

The rotors do not have a home position in any drop sensor machine, whether USI or Royal.  The rotor stops only when the logic board tells the motor to stop.  The good thing about that is if you have to replace a motor, it doesn't matter what position the rotor is in when you put the machine back together.  Otherwise, changing a motor is a golpher.  On the USl's there are metal lip deflectors at the very bottom of the column walls.  They have two studs and are secured with two 11/32" nuts.  If you are missing them on the columns that are double vending cans, that could be the cause.  You do sometimes have to remove the lips on the outside columns to help product fall but they should only be removed if such removal actually solves a problem.  Otherwise they need to be installed.

Edited by AZVendor
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  • 8 months later...

I am having this same issue with a CB500. It double releases ( if that is the correct term).  The product drops simultaneously when they are cans.  This is not for the whole machine just some random selections.  Now suddenly one column is damaging my cans.  It is either busting the lip or bottom of can or cutting a hole into them.  Any help would be appreciated.  Thanks. 

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Make sure the delivery chute is even with or just a smidge higher than the delivery port opening. There are small product deflectors at the bottoms of all columns to help push the can away from the column.  Those can be removed if they are hindering the product delivery or cutting cans. Make sure no wiring is in the way of the items.  The double vending is a drop sensor issue so read your manual and increase the sensitivity of the sensor.  Also, remember that the bottoms of the cans must be faced toward the center of the machine.  Tops to the back in the rear columns and tops to the front in the front columns.

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@AZVendor how would double vending play out?  One product drops the sensor doesn’t pick it up and releases another product product?  I think I we can agree on that.  So that means there is a delay in the release of the product.  In my case the rotor is spinning all too far and releasing both cans at the same time.  I moved (rotor alone), (motor alone), rotor and motors together from working selections and the problem is isolated to the selection rather than the equipment.  I am completely lost.  I was speaking to Michael Crowder at Vendnet last night and he is stumped also.  We reset the board. And still the same issue.  I took the board to another location that has the same machine.  I made sure to jot down the selections that were dropping double cans and the other location with the same board works well. So that eliminated the board.  So I am lost.  

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You've done some good troubleshooting, which most vendors don't even understand.  Is this problem in a corner column?  That is where the drop sensor issues usually manifest themselves.  Make sure your delivery chute is attached at the front but floating in the rear.  Make sure the chute mat is laying flat on the entire chute as ripples or a lifted area will deaden the vibrations.  Lastly, you might need a new drop sensor which is riveted to the bottom of the chute.

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@AZVendor the selection numbers that are double vending are selection number 11,12, and 15.    Selection 14 is acting iffy.  It might do it one in 3 or 8/9 test vends.  One time last night it dropped 3 cans at once.  Picture below for reference  just in case.  Another thing that I realized is that the rotor for selection 15 was rotating much more.  I tried to provide picture but it’s to big in size to be uploaded. 

you seem to believe that it’s the drop sensor? The chute is floating in the back secure in the front.  My unit has a digital drop sensor setting  which is currently at default  you think I should tinker with that 

69D73EBE-3D6C-4E20-BBA1-255C155EE1A9.thumb.jpeg.b9bb2432cc8a388909adbad61ebcc315.jpeg

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You can adjust the sensor to one number more sensitive to see if that helps, though it could cause it to be too sensitive to other columns.  You might have to adjust it by two numbers to see any change.  I've never cared for this type of adjustment.  The old style boards with an adjustable pot on the board was more tunable to an individual issue like this.

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1 minute ago, tblake05 said:

Is this a 3189 or a 3500?

Nevermind, I see GVC1 on the picture.  So its a 3500 series.

Odd problem, Though I'm sure you've already made sure the can/bottle settings are correct.

I forget exactly where the drop sensor mounts on the chute, but if it is more towards one side than the other.  Maybe if its mounted on one side of the chute and its beginning to become less sensitive (failing), it might only register drops on the side its mounted towards.  Like AZ said, increasing the sensitivity might help.  Not too far though because then people will get their money stolen.

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@tblake05 the product is not dropping  at first then another dropping after.  The cans drop together. The rotor is turning too far but it’s limited to a few selections.   What was you resolution to your issue with the 3189. It seems like we have similar problems.  Thanks. 

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@AZVendor @tblake05

just got off the phone with Michael from Vandnet.  Spoke to his engineers, they are telling me that the motor harness that the motors connect to possibly has a short or nicked.  In the picture, based on Me following that harness back to the board it would be the “tray selection# wires” connecter (4th on the left side down)F02A4F4F-1427-4F36-89D9-47E03B9D36FC.thumb.jpeg.6cfd7fdd844b11bd8bc2af022a0c9ace.jpeg I am waiting for vendnet to provide me with a part number and pricing.  I was wondering if you guys have seen that wire anywhere available for sale.  

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They may be correct though the way the system works is the logic board provides power to the motor until the drop sensor tells the board that a vend has been made which then ceases all power to any motors.  The drop sensor itself must not have a damaged harness with any nicks or scuffs all the way back to the logic board or it will not work correctly.  In a logic based system the motor power is always present at the motor and what causes the motor to run is grounding the motor through the negative motor wire back to logic ground on the board.  The vend is stopped by removing that logic ground within the board circuitry.  Ask them to explain how that functions and if the issue would be a bad motor driver harness or a motor common/ground harness.

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I agree with AZ. Vendnets diagnosis sounds possible. But that fact it spins at all would make me thing something is up with control board or programming.

The way you describe it. At least how I’m following is that the problem columns don’t spin initially when they should. The time the first rotation (if the motor were to spin correctly) comes to an end and no input from the drop sensor. Now the machine spins again. And this time the auger rotates.... a complete revolution and drops 2 cans at once.

Sounds odd. Do you have 2 wire or 3 wire motors? Wonder if you have 3 wire motors and there is a break in the “home” circuit for the motors that aren’t working. (J6, top plug on left side will have yellow wires in it if you have 3 wire motors)

I suggest starting from scratch. Do a new motor count. Write the number down, should be ten. (Push service mode button, then push 2) number displayed is the motors.

I have a pdf from vendnet for toggling between motor types I can email you if you would like to give it a shot if you think somehow your motor type got changed from 2 to 3. Which could happen if the battery on the board were to die and the building power flickered briefly. Battery is a 2032, wouldn’t hurt to change it out anyway. As vendnet told me that if it’s dead can cause all sorts of odd problems. My pdf only covers certain gvc1 blue boards. So may not pertain exactly to yours. (Menus may be slightly different) especially if it’s the green board.

from there, you’ll have to download the schematic from vendnet and ohm check each of the flaky motors wires back to the control board. Maybe as you jiggle them around to check for opens. If everything checks out, it may be time for a new gvc1 board.

————————-

my 3189 has a small screw to adjust sensitivity. Which like AZ said is much nicer cause you tap the chute and watch for an LED to flash. I feel I can get it much more precise. Only bad thing is, it’s mounted on the board on some machines in such a way that you have to dismount the board while leaving it plugged in and running. Which is sort of precarious. But easy once you’ve done a few.


good luck, report back 

-Tim

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@tblake05 the motors work perfectly. Rotates as it normally should. My issue is that it is rotating too much.  For instance, the cradle is suppose to stop just short of its rotation to drop the back can and hold on to the front can. What mine is doing its rotating through the back can which usually goes first and also dropping the front can which is usual held for the next vend.  I hope that makes sense.  That definitely was proven when I did a test vend with two selections 14,15.  Selection 14 held, the one can and selection 15 released both can.  I took the cradle and motor out from each selection.  The cradle for selection 15 rotated more than the cradle for selection 14.  I took a picture but I can’t upload it.  I sent it to AZvendor’s email.  I can send it to you also.  

omega

I have 2 wire motors.  With vendnet yesterday. We reset the board completely and did numerous motor counts. 

wealth

I even took the blue board out and went to another of the same machine I have and test vended those problematic selections. They alll worked properly on that other machine.  So to me that eliminated the board possibly being board. 

vending@gmail.com

send me what you have.  To get the Email address…. start with omega. 
 

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4 minutes ago, JustMack said:

@tblake05 the motors work perfectly. Rotates as it normally should. My issue is that it is rotating too much.  For instance, the cradle is suppose to stop just short of its rotation to drop the back can and hold on to the front can. What mine is doing its rotating through the back can which usually goes first and also dropping the front can which is usual held for the next vend.  I hope that makes sense.  That definitely was proven when I did a test vend with two selections 14,15.  Selection 14 held, the one can and selection 15 released both can.  I took the cradle and motor out from each selection.  The cradle for selection 15 rotated more than the cradle for selection 14.  I took a picture but I can’t upload it.  I sent it to AZvendor’s email.  I can send it to you also.  

omega

I have 2 wire motors.  With vendnet yesterday. We reset the board completely and did numerous motor counts. 

wealth

I even took the blue board out and went to another of the same machine I have and test vended those problematic selections. They alll worked properly on that other machine.  So to me that eliminated the board possibly being board. 

vending@gmail.com

send me what you have.  To get the Email address…. start with omega. 
 

Email sent and Yes send me what you got. Though it sounds like you are on the right track with vendnets help. If the chute is adjusted correctly as per AZ, there has to be a harness problem. Did you swap over the drop sensor?

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Do you have the front column lips in place on those columns held on with two studs and 11/32" nuts as referenced in my Post #3 above?  Those might have been removed for bottles to drop easier. They are mounted on the bottom of the left wall on each column.

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