Confused on ADA Requirements

[AngryChris]

20 hours ago, Dave101 said:

Regarding your statement about mentioning scale, I'm not sure where you're referencing. 

I'm referencing this-

 

On 10/2/2022 at 12:07 PM, Dave101 said:

Quick google and I see newer Bevmax go for $7k. Not feasible for scaling up. Even older ones are around $4k range.

and this -

 

On 10/1/2022 at 5:15 PM, Dave101 said:

Gameplan was to get 2 (one snack and one drink) to put in some of the lobby area, and ask to test. If it's good we can scale to 4.

My assumption is that you have some other kinds of background that has some degree of understanding of scaling but you are overthinking it regarding vending.  Typically, for an established vendor, you're placing the machines one time and not placing more or less unless the account grows or shrinks.  You might upgrade or replace equipment years later but that's an exception.  I'm just not sure what you mean when you say a bevmax isn't feasible for scaling but you also mention wanting to place a couple machines and scale from there.  I'm sure those might be two completely different thoughts but I'm just not sure what your concerns or hangups are.  The bevmax is the only soda vendor Crane sells now, and it's the most popular glassfront soda vendor sold.  The big companies get them because of their many perks, even despite their many drawbacks.  There's nothing to say you can't scale with a bevmax UNLESS you are referring to the price of equipment.

And yes, as others have reiterated, the simple thing about vending is you try to budget your equipment costs based off of the value of the location.  A better location deserves a bigger investment.  You absolutely can decide on your minimum sales volume and buy equipment based off of that, such as requiring $200/week in sales (snack and soda combined) because maybe you can get two refurbished machines to fit your budget at those kinds of sales.  Of course, you have to have an idea of how to predict sales to target those locations.  The reason why most of us here as well as distributors encourage you to get used equipment is because your chances of landing big locations fresh out of the gates is so small.  We don't want to see you fail because.. well most of us care and take pride in what we do.  Distributors don't want to see you fail because they want you to grow and buy more from them.  Is it a better idea to start with used and grab a few locations and get the cash flowing? I think so.  The last thing you want is tens of thousands of dollars in debt and you want out and can't sell at anywhere near what you paid for equipment.

As for buying older machines with "newer" doors.  You don't have to do that.  The "newer" doors you are probably referring to are revision doors from Vendor's Exchange.  To my knowledge, they are the only ones making retro doors now.  These aren't "newer" though, they are typically brand new.  I don't know of any source to get any used revision doors except MAYBE vendor's exchange themselves, and I doubt that.  The purpose of these doors is to make older machines look and function like new machines.  It's not perfect, but they do work and they do fool most customers.  You're going to have to pay a good 1200-1400+ for these door kits.  However, you can also simply buy machines that have already been installed with these doors OR you can just buy machines that were already manufactured with all of the bells and whistles.  

I'll explain this... the AP 113 is pushing something like 30 years old.  We are talking cassette and VHS era.  These boards were never designed to communicate via MDB protocols which is the universal protocol used for the past 20 years or so.  You can replace the board, but the machines still look dated.  Replacing the whole door makes the machine look like a new one and comes with the new board AND drop sensors.  If you want a credit card reader, you have to add that to the machine.  It's a separate component and this is true for basically all machines except maybe the most latest ones on the market today.  Now, if you get a machine manufactured after about the year 2000, it should already be using MDB and be credit card capable.  There's no reason to replace the door.  Some of the older MDB machines don't play well with card readers though.  My main point here is that the revision door is new and it's only relevant with really old equipment (the AP 113 is pretty old, but a good one).  However, you CAN just replace the board, it just won't make the machine look any different except for a new display.  And that's a much cheaper thing to do.

I just want you to understand how a growing vending business will typically play out.  Unless you have access to some storage, you'll either be working out of a garage or some form of small storage (like a spot inside your house or maybe a small storage unit which is not recommended) for quite some time until you get enough locations and cash flow for a larger vehicle where you may want to store your product inside as a "rolling warehouse".  From there, as you build up further.  You might get big enough to afford some other kind of storage as you'll need to store more product and maybe some equipment.  Furthermore, you'll build up and you may or may not need more storage space such as a small warehouse where you can get commercial deliveries and store pallets of supplies.  Some people think they'll just start a vending business, pick up several locations really fast and they'll be working in the office of some building while their driver is out there stocking everything.  That's typically not how it works unless you are well established.  There are people in all kinds of businesses that even go out and lease a place right away and buy new office furniture and other things because they just expect the money to come flowing in simply because they started a business.  I'm not assuming that's you, but just letting you know that the process of growing in vending can be quite the grind. 

For people like myself, the hardest part about growing as having enough time to focus on my business.  I needed the income from my job to support myself.  I also needed the profits from my business so I could continue to grow.  Taking time away from my job meant less income to pay my bills which also meant less money I could reinvest into the business.  I had to balance having more time to grow OR more money to pay bills and reinvest.  I couldn't do both.  Now my business is completely self-sustaining.  I pay msyelf with it but I also use profits to reinvest as well.  Money has been tight ever since the lockdowns happened but I have been slowly making things better ever since.

Also, vending has major growing pains.  The bigger you get, the more you need.  And that "more" thing you need (larger vehicle, larger storage, etc...) can be so expensive that it requires you to get even more locations to justify its expense.  This happens over and over and over again.   The business could constantly grow from a small cluster of machines to a route that requires several days worth of visits to get done, and it's possible to barely be making more money than when you were smaller due to all of the expenses you had to add along the way.  Once you get to a full route, then the real potential is usually realized.  The problem then is that you may wish to grow and you may want to hire someone so you can focus on expanding.  Well, that person will likely not do anywhere near as good as a job as you did.  And if this is your only driver of your one-person route, then they can royally mess up your business if you aren't careful.  It can be very difficult to grow at that point especially if the economy is so bad that it's hard to find people to work (which we are in right now).  Plus, that additional expense of a full-time or even part-time driver will put you right back at square one where you are back to making the same money again as when you were smaller.  The sweet spot from many sources is about 3 routes and then 6 routes.  At 3 routes, you can usually manage all of the office work, PR, repairs, and meeting with potential clients as well as oversee drivers.  Beyond 3 routes, you then may need a repair guy or an office worker or maybe a warehouse worker or a floater to take on multiple duties.  These workers just eat up profits and, while necessary, don't bring in additional profits unlike drivers.  So you can go from 3 routes to 4 and then 5... and be possibly making less money than when you had 3 routes but also with way more headaches!!!  Then, around 6 routes, you may have enough profits that all of the overhead expenses don't hurt your bottom line quite as much anymore.  Just understand that almost no established vendors out there will be telling you that vending is easy and you'll make big money with it UNLESS you work hard and deal with all of the setbacks along the way.  A lot of people simply don't want to or can't put up with that.