Move to .50 seems inevitable, does this "upgrade" to .50 actually work?

[Mad vending]

So, haven't been doing this long, just picked up a route or 20Ish machines and placed 4 more in the past 2 weeks, and working on placing more (have a total of about 60 machines to place, as well as the 25 in service). 

So previous folks running their route clearly haven't modified their settings to the new realities, most machine are vending at such an amount they are almost certainly at break even or losing money on some of the products they were vending, needless to say I am changing the settings on these deployed machines to be in line with costs and inflation.

However, its become pretty clear to me, that other than Gumballs and a few other things, most candy just cannot be sold for .25 effectively long term.  The big players in my area are pretty consistent already gumballs .25 just about everything else .50 or more.  

Now obviously, I'd rather not spend a large sum of money buying completely new coin mechs for these machines, though if I have to I have to.. I do have a good number of Oak/Astros, and I found this on Youtube, has anyone actually tried this?  Does it work?
 

Has 

[NYCandyMaN]

its the only way to survive now

[Mad vending]

5 hours ago, NYCandyMaN said:

its the only way to survive now

I agree.  The video is a bit comical in showing your just pry out the backer for these machines.. seems clear it needs to be cut out and the thickness does seem to be such that removing it would make the mech work for 50 cent.. but has anyone here actually done it ?   And if so what/how did you cut the carrier wheel

[Singod]

i have done this to check it out they make it look easier then it is but it is for sure doable. the issue is it only checks for 1 quarter in the front so 1 quarter in the front and a nickel or anything even close to the right thickness in the back will work and kids figure this stuff out. also the one i did jammed a decent amount once i did this. jams cost you money and get you thrown out from my experience. so i would just suck it up and buy a good mech. just my opinion. but really those are cheap mechs that you prolly have extra of so do it to one and see how you feel about it thats what i did.

also wanted to mention if you do it i would grind it out or something breaking it out like they show tends to break out randomly more then you want so you will throw away a few coin wheels trying to just snap it out

 

Edited September 28, 2023 by Singod

[gumball guy]

17 hours ago, Mad vending said:

So, haven't been doing this long, just picked up a route or 20Ish machines and placed 4 more in the past 2 weeks, and working on placing more (have a total of about 60 machines to place, as well as the 25 in service). 

So previous folks running their route clearly haven't modified their settings to the new realities, most machine are vending at such an amount they are almost certainly at break even or losing money on some of the products they were vending, needless to say I am changing the settings on these deployed machines to be in line with costs and inflation.

However, its become pretty clear to me, that other than Gumballs and a few other things, most candy just cannot be sold for .25 effectively long term.  The big players in my area are pretty consistent already gumballs .25 just about everything else .50 or more.  

Now obviously, I'd rather not spend a large sum of money buying completely new coin mechs for these machines, though if I have to I have to.. I do have a good number of Oak/Astros, and I found this on Youtube, has anyone actually tried this?  Does it work?
 

Has 

     I have a competitor/friend who has bought some of these "converted" Oak coin mechs and cited the same issues as Singod did in his post. It has been my experience over the years that bulk coin mechs, while a simple in design and operation, have pretty tight tolerances for consistently proper performance so it doesn't take much for them to malfunction if you make changes to them.

     If you do change some of your bulk candy heads to 50 cent vends please let us know how it impacts your sales. I have yet to hear of anyone having significant sales gains vending bulk candy at 50 cents per turn in run of the mill locations like waiting rooms, restaurants or walk in retail locations. It does seem viable for locations like bowling alleys, kid's venues, indoor sports complexes etc though.  Unfortunately the long term issue will be the fact that people just are not using change/cash like they used to and I expect to see that trend continue to grow.

[AngryChris]

On 9/28/2023 at 4:41 PM, gumball guy said:

Unfortunately the long term issue will be the fact that people just are not using change/cash like they used to and I expect to see that trend continue to grow.

I imagine that we'll eventually see a pretty small fraction of bulk vendors left in existence in the next 10-20 years.  I can see the biggest bulk vendors out there gobbling up all of their competitors and then ditching all of the really slow locations in an attempt to keep the good times going.  Once you can no longer buy new gumball machines (assuming you still can, I have no idea), that's when you'll know the clock is really counting down to the end for it.  ATMs might last a bit longer for various reasons but I personally wouldn't recommend anyone invest into either industry if they aren't already deep in it.  Even vending machines are a bit questionable right now, not because they are going away any time soon but because prices on everything are just so insanely high.  I honestly don't know how anyone could get into any kind of vending industry right now if they don't already have a lot of financial resources at their disposal.

[gumball guy]

12 hours ago, AngryChris said:

I imagine that we'll eventually see a pretty small fraction of bulk vendors left in existence in the next 10-20 years.  I can see the biggest bulk vendors out there gobbling up all of their competitors and then ditching all of the really slow locations in an attempt to keep the good times going.  Once you can no longer buy new gumball machines (assuming you still can, I have no idea), that's when you'll know the clock is really counting down to the end for it.  ATMs might last a bit longer for various reasons but I personally wouldn't recommend anyone invest into either industry if they aren't already deep in it.  Even vending machines are a bit questionable right now, not because they are going away any time soon but because prices on everything are just so insanely high.  I honestly don't know how anyone could get into any kind of vending industry right now if they don't already have a lot of financial resources at their disposal.

I agree with your timeline. That said, most of the bigger operators won't buy existing bulk businesses anymore. They may send out locators to poach or encroach on existing locations but I haven't even seen that happening in the last couple of years in my area. The bulk business model is becoming so unprofitable that it just doesn't make sense to buy a business where you may never get a ROI. I believe most of the bigger operators will just continue on until they are no longer getting a positive net then close up shop. I think what we will continue to see are a bunch of smaller operators/entrepreneurs with high hopes putting out machines and making a few bucks. Cheap, used bulk equipment will be available for a long time and will help fuel that trend.

I completely agree with your assessment of ATMs and full line as well as the entire state of vending in general.

[Mad vending]

On 9/28/2023 at 8:39 AM, Singod said:

i have done this to check it out they make it look easier then it is but it is for sure doable. the issue is it only checks for 1 quarter in the front so 1 quarter in the front and a nickel or anything even close to the right thickness in the back will work and kids figure this stuff out. also the one i did jammed a decent amount once i did this. jams cost you money and get you thrown out from my experience. so i would just suck it up and buy a good mech. just my opinion. but really those are cheap mechs that you prolly have extra of so do it to one and see how you feel about it thats what i did.

also wanted to mention if you do it i would grind it out or something breaking it out like they show tends to break out randomly more then you want so you will throw away a few coin wheels trying to just snap it out

 

Yes, obviously only the top quarter gets checked, and a slug or smaller coin could be used for the back item.  Thanks for the info.

[Mad vending]

On 9/28/2023 at 4:41 PM, gumball guy said:

     I have a competitor/friend who has bought some of these "converted" Oak coin mechs and cited the same issues as Singod did in his post. It has been my experience over the years that bulk coin mechs, while a simple in design and operation, have pretty tight tolerances for consistently proper performance so it doesn't take much for them to malfunction if you make changes to them.

     If you do change some of your bulk candy heads to 50 cent vends please let us know how it impacts your sales. I have yet to hear of anyone having significant sales gains vending bulk candy at 50 cents per turn in run of the mill locations like waiting rooms, restaurants or walk in retail locations. It does seem viable for locations like bowling alleys, kid's venues, indoor sports complexes etc though.  Unfortunately the long term issue will be the fact that people just are not using change/cash like they used to and I expect to see that trend continue to grow.

Yes, I don't have enough experience to know, but given the typical retail establishment purchase is "impulse" the more complicated the purchase the less likely a sale would happen I would think, so 2 coins vs one makes it more complicated.

I have purchased a true .50 replacement mech for my first deployment to use one.  This will be a double head toy in a ice cream parlor.  Ownere wants toys not candy, so will have a .25 and .50 to start, with hopes it will go well and can put in something larger if it does.  (I am assuming, perhaps incorrectly, more options when it comes to toys, are more sales).

I am tempted to try this, since its a cheaper option than purchasing all new mechs for every machine, the only other option is to just stay real cheap candy and dump the more name brand items, and stick with gumballs/hard candy, for these machines.

 

[gumball guy]

I completely agree with the less complicated the better when it comes to improving sales. I think a toy machine in a ice cream parlor is a winner, especially if it's a busy place. I am assuming both heads are 1 inch vendors. So with a 50 cent/25 cent side by side set up, I would suggest using a strong item with good signage at 50 cents and a generic mix at 25 cents. Don't be surprised if the generic mix outsells the premium mix due to the "less complicated" discussion from above and the simple fact that it is just cheaper. You could also consider just running two 25 cent heads there with generic toy mixes and save the 50 cent mech for a location that you can run gumballs (25 cents) and toys (50 cents) side by side. Sometimes it just takes some experimenting to see what works best in a location. Good luck and let us know how it goes.

[AngryChris]

12 hours ago, gumball guy said:

I agree with your timeline. That said, most of the bigger operators won't buy existing bulk businesses anymore. They may send out locators to poach or encroach on existing locations but I haven't even seen that happening in the last couple of years in my area. The bulk business model is becoming so unprofitable that it just doesn't make sense to buy a business where you may never get a ROI. I believe most of the bigger operators will just continue on until they are no longer getting a positive net then close up shop. I think what we will continue to see are a bunch of smaller operators/entrepreneurs with high hopes putting out machines and making a few bucks. Cheap, used bulk equipment will be available for a long time and will help fuel that trend.

I completely agree with your assessment of ATMs and full line as well as the entire state of vending in general.

You're probably right.  It just seems so much better for an operator who wants to retire to just sell out for less than what his business is currently worth to make a quick sale.  Trying to sell machines individually seems to be a total waste of time in my mind and you can save all of that time by just selling everything.  Say you have 100 machines that do 18k/year combined, you say you want $6k.  The buyer gets a good deal on the route, which may make the buyer more efficient if it's already in their territory.  The seller gets their money without having to waste time trying to sell bits and pieces.  Everyone wins in my mind.  But I don't do bulk vending so I don't really know.  I know this very thing happens in full-line because a good established company is too big for a lot of people to get financing for so they end up selling to other well-established vendors that want to make a return on investment and end up paying less than the company is actually worth.

[gumball guy]

10 hours ago, AngryChris said:

You're probably right.  It just seems so much better for an operator who wants to retire to just sell out for less than what his business is currently worth to make a quick sale.  Trying to sell machines individually seems to be a total waste of time in my mind and you can save all of that time by just selling everything.  Say you have 100 machines that do 18k/year combined, you say you want $6k.  The buyer gets a good deal on the route, which may make the buyer more efficient if it's already in their territory.  The seller gets their money without having to waste time trying to sell bits and pieces.  Everyone wins in my mind.  But I don't do bulk vending so I don't really know.  I know this very thing happens in full-line because a good established company is too big for a lot of people to get financing for so they end up selling to other well-established vendors that want to make a return on investment and end up paying less than the company is actually worth.

Selling it as a route is indeed so much easier. Through the years I've bought out at least 12 of my smaller competitors and it worked just as you described. These days, the problem is trying to find anyone who has the capital to buy it outright, even at fire sale prices. That leaves you with selling it on contract which is often fraught with problems or selling it piecemeal. 

In regards to full line I believe it is just on a different level than bulk vending when it comes to selling/buying routes. There are several locally owned full line companies in my area that will still buy out competitors with decent equipment/locations to beef up their existing routes. That just isn't the case with bulk vending anymore, at least in my neck of the woods. 

[SSVEND]

23 hours ago, gumball guy said:

Selling it as a route is indeed so much easier. Through the years I've bought out at least 12 of my smaller competitors and it worked just as you described. These days, the problem is trying to find anyone who has the capital to buy it outright, even at fire sale prices. That leaves you with selling it on contract which is often fraught with problems or selling it piecemeal. 

In regards to full line I believe it is just on a different level than bulk vending when it comes to selling/buying routes. There are several locally owned full line companies in my area that will still buy out competitors with decent equipment/locations to beef up their existing routes. That just isn't the case with bulk vending anymore, at least in my neck of the woods. 

Absolutely the problem is finding anyone to buy the route outright. I'm in the process of selling piecemeal and should be done selling by years end. Wish it wasn't the case, but at this point i'll take what I can get and be grateful someone is buying the business.

[Mad vending]

On 9/30/2023 at 12:00 PM, gumball guy said:

I completely agree with the less complicated the better when it comes to improving sales. I think a toy machine in a ice cream parlor is a winner, especially if it's a busy place. I am assuming both heads are 1 inch vendors. So with a 50 cent/25 cent side by side set up, I would suggest using a strong item with good signage at 50 cents and a generic mix at 25 cents. Don't be surprised if the generic mix outsells the premium mix due to the "less complicated" discussion from above and the simple fact that it is just cheaper. You could also consider just running two 25 cent heads there with generic toy mixes and save the 50 cent mech for a location that you can run gumballs (25 cents) and toys (50 cents) side by side. Sometimes it just takes some experimenting to see what works best in a location. Good luck and let us know how it goes.

Yes, I am hopeful the machine will do well.  My thoughts were the generic mix works for those who only have a quarter in change, but not 50 cents, and the 50 cent for those that have more.  I will see how it works out.  The placement they wanted in the store I think is a little less than ideal for being seen, its not by the cash register or by the door, but I can't do too much about that.  I will give it a few weeks, check in and see how it goes.  I would like to see if there is something I could do to draw more attention to the machine, but not sure what.  Its just the classic ford blue... I would think other colors might pop more, I assume some studies have been done on that.

If it does well enough I am hopeful the owner will be open to a larger option that the double head... working on the assumption a larger footprint is more visible and with toys, more options do increase sales.. of course my assumptions could be completely wrong.