Threat of foreclosure, how to get rid of non paying tenents???

[Rustinm]

Ok, Im going to rant and rave AND ask a question! My mom has a house that she has been renting out for the past 12 months. The problem is that the renters are worthless peices of (*%^*$&*(%^(*&. You get the idea, they have not paid on time once. Now their lease expired 2 months ago, at which point they still owed 850$. Now two months later they still havnt payed a penny and if they dont leave before november my mom will lose the house to foreclosure. I am supposed to be moving in as soon as they move out but how the hell do we get them out before we lose the house? We have given them the legal notifications and we will be able to offically file eviction on wednesday, but of couse here in michigan the law is completly against the landlord and we are afraid that we will lose the house before the squatters, opps i mean tenents leave. What do we do???

[G-man422]

Rustin,  I am not a lawyer nor should you take this as legal advice as I am not extremely familiar with Michigan law.  As long as your mom has filed the paperwork needed ( given them adequate notice, eviction notice, etc) it is a waiting game.  They should have been given a notice to "pay by such-n-such a date" and if no payment was received then file eviction papers.  DO NOT take partial payments as this could hurt you if it needs to be taken to court which may end up happening here.  I  urge your mother to contact an attorney and I wish you all the best.

[Mercury]

Foreclosure has ZERO to do with renting the house!

The bank doesn't care if there are tenants in there or not. Just pay the mortgage, and it won't be foreclosed on.

I have rental properties, and let me tell you this: 95% of landlords are NOT cut out to be landlords! Thats why you are getting screwed now!

You should have kicked them out the second time they were late! Once that pattern starts, YOU are the bottom of the list when it comes to their money!

My tenants have all been with me for 3-5 years, except one that has been there for a year. The people before them were with me 6 years. I fix stuff THE DAY that they call, if they have a problem! I expect them to pay on time, too. I have one tenant that has been with me for 8 years.

When I interview people, I tell them right out: "If you plan to be noisy, party and tear the place up, don't even waste my time, because you WILL BE EVICTED!"

I've had people get up and go "Well, I don't think this is the place for me then, thanks!" Which is EXACTLY what I want! The good people go "Not a problem"

If you let scumbags get away with ANYTHING they will screw you over.

I don't take late payments, ever. I make that PERFECTLY CLEAR in the rental agreement. (I do, of course, if they have been decent people!!!!!)

Also, leases will SCREW YOU EVERY TIME! Why? Because if they are crappy tenants, it is harder to get them out!

I had one woman that rented for two years, with no problems. Then she started being late with the rent.......three months in a row! I raised the rent $200 (she was paying $450) to get her out. She had developed a gambling habit. I knew she was going to be trouble, and I'm glad I did it. After she moved out, I discovered (through the newspaper) that she had embezzeled $700k from her job! She ended up going to prison for 7 years.

Anyway, don't let people screw you. Thats all I'm saying. Good luck.

Merc

[Rustinm]

Ok, i have to say that i completly agree with you murcery. The problem is that there is a lot more to this story then what ive posted, let me expand a little bit. My mom lived in the rental house for almost 4 years. 1st of all, the house is way too nice to be a rental. 3 bed, 1 bath, 1500 square feet, 2 car attached heated garage, 1500 square foot pole barn and all this is on 2.2 acres. very nice place. My mom was/is a licenced real estate agent so naturally when the market went down she put her licence on hold because she wasnt making any money, keep in mind she was an agent in flint michigan where the market is beyond bad. But anyway not the point, naturally she always is looking at houses online. She found a house .8 of a mile down the road from her that was nicer and she loved it. They made the very very hard desision to go for it and buy it, they put the rental up for sale but of course in the short month they had to try to sell it before the sale of the other house went through they were unable to sell it. The only choice they had was to rent it out to cover the morgage, so they were able to get the morgage on the other house. They put it up for rent on craigslist and had a huge response, they interviewed like 20 different families and choose what they thought would be the most likely to pay the rent. Also, this was a lease with option to buy because as you mentioned they were not ready to be landlords and very much did not want to be. So the squatters, opps i mean renters paid for the 900$ option to buy which you probably know is non refundable and then they paid the 1st months rent. That was the last time they have paid anything on time. My mom  does not make enough to cover both morgages which would easyly be over 3k per month plus taxes insurance, blah, blah, blah. I am now in the positition to pay her rent and move in, which i was not ready or able to do when she 1st decided to rent it out. I absolutly hate where i am(trailer park). I live across the street from the office and i get woke up everyday from all of there bs(another long story for another time). Now, the problem is that they wont leave. Thier lease was up 2 months ago, as was their option to buy, they still owe 850$ from the last month of the lease and because they are no longer in a legal contract they have no obligation to pay for two months that they have been squatting. We have given them a 30 day and a 7 day notice before we got the worthless lawyer and found out that those notices were no good because they didnt have a stupid little disclosure statment on the bottom, so the lawyer sent them legal notices which expire wednesday which is when we can legally file for eviction. I say that the lawyer was worthless because he fired us if you can believe this, because my mom called and tried to find out what was going on, and ended up telling him that she was very dissatisfied with his service because he would never return her phone calls. so now we dont have a lawyer and my mom is behind on that morgage. Bottom line is that if we cant get them out before november she will lose the house. Michigan laws wont let us do anything about it. It is completly rediculous that these bastards can sit there and lie to my moms face about when they are moving out and never do what they say but the state of michigan protects them all the way! We are at a loss and im very worried that we are going to lose the house because of these assholes. Any thoughts on this very long post?

[sbishop]

In real life I manage a 73 unit apartment complex. Rent is due on the 1st, on the 5th they get a 3-day notice to vacate, and 3 days latter i file for eviction. The constible can usally put them on the street before the end of the month.

Look for an apartment association or a realitor that handles propery management and ask for help. They will most likely give you some good legal info. I know they have evicted people before.

Edit

I just read ut last post. Our lease states the at the end of the contract term it converts to month to month. Report your lawyer to the state bar. Move in with your mom and pay the morgate to save the house. Get the court filings started.

When someone does not leave after a lease ends that is called a hold over. your state should have laws for people who do not leave, and yes they still ahve to pay rent if they stay after the lease. With the eviction get a judgment for unpaid rent and late fees. Then get an abstract of Judgment so it will hit their credit and warn any potencial future landlords!

[BudLeiser]

In the "snow" states it can be hard to evict people. Judges have been known to side with tenants and post pone evictions. But your mom needs to get on the ball and start doing her homework better. File the proper forms, proper signatures, notary witness etc etc etc.

There is no legal advice we can give you besides....start doing your homework! If the power is in their name, get it back in your name and turn it off. Same with water, gas, waste etc. Call your local property managers and ask for assistance, offer to pay or use them in the future. Find a better lawyer and this time ask realtors and property managers for referrals. Call your local police, sheriffs etc ask for assistance/guidance on what you need to do to get them forcibly removed. Report any suspicious activity on your property. If your landlord laws/contracts allow you to visit and inspect your own property then do so as often as you are allowed. If they bar you from entry and you have the legal right to inspect call law enforcement to accompany you.

Get off your butt and do your homework!

And then there are the shady methods.....

[Rustinm]

I love the sound of the shady methods, beleive me there are plenty i would love to use. I would love to set m-80's off at 4am everyday, we are "inspecting as often as we can get people to look, I would just love to knock on the door and tell them what i really think, but knowing how the stupid state of michigan is we would probably end up owing them money, its so stupid. OHHHH and i almost forgot, we put a for rent or sale by owner sign up in the yard, and the stupid bastards took it down! I know that cant be legal for them to do! This whole thing is amazingly rediculous, and there is no way i can move in with my mom, it just wouldnt work, they dont have enough room and i dont live alone. I am very interested in the hold over concept, the problem is that there is nothing in the lease that says they go month to month after the lease expires. so what does that leave us to do? I am going to "inspect" the house again tommorow and i am thinking i am going to make it very clear that on the 8th, which is the day after the bullshiters say they are going to be moved out, i am going to be there with a u haul truck, a signed lease, and keys to move in and tell them that they better be out. As of now though it does not look like they are even packing which is why i want to look tommorow. I cant put in my 30 day notice until i know they are moving.

[The Mage]

Follow all legal options of course, but you could let them know of no only the legal action of getting them evicted, but the fact that you will sue them for unpaid rent, the cost of all legal action against them, all and any damage to the property, and anything else you can think of.

Then you can tell them if they are completely moved out in say 4 days, you will pay for the U-Haul rental, (in their name, not yours,) not take any legal action, and you will even give them $100 once they are out.

It should be pointed out that you can sue anybody for anything, but that does not mean you will win, but don't tell them that.  So you can probably include many things that sound credible, but would not fly in an actual lawsuit.

Anyway, if they are having trouble paying the rent, a financial enticement is very motivating, and potentially a heck (censored) of a lot cheaper, and less time consuming, then going through all the work to evict them.

Also I would go as high as $500 to get them out, even if I had to borrow the money to do it.

[allknowing4ever]

If I were in your shoes and my mom was about to lose her house over these people. You live in Michigan. And in Michigan you got some great shotgun/rifle laws. I'd show up with a Shotgun. Cock it. Say, "Your trespassing on my land." That or I just disable the water, power, and gas. I feel if you don't play nice neither do I.

   

Quick Reference

Rifles and Shotguns

    *  Permit to purchase rifles and shotguns? No

    * Registration of rifles and shotguns? No

    * Licensing of owners of rifles and shotguns? No

    * Permit to carry rifles and shotguns? No

State Requirements

Purchase

No permit is required for the purchase of a rifle or shotgun.

No rifle, shotgun or handgun may be sold to a minor under 18 years of age, a convicted felon, or a person under indictment.

Source: http://crime.about.com/od/gunlawsbystate/a/gunlaws_mi.htm

Billy

[Sparta_Automation]

Not sure about Michigan...but most states you cannot turn off power, water, phones etc.  They could sue....and more than likely would win.

Best bet, although it sucks is too follow through with your legal recourse, scrap money together to help mom and get it over with as quickly as possible.

Travis

[Paraflier]

If you ever show up for an inspection..... Make sure to bring a camera. Even if you have no intention of using it. People get nervous when the landlord shows up with a camera.

My father has gotten more than one dead beat tenant to disappear with a camera and no film in it.

Showing up with a shotgun (or any weapon) is a great way land in jail. Guns are not for bluffing. (As much as you would think they would get scared and run away....... And boy, I wish it were that easy!)

In WA even if someone is squatting (living w/o a lease) and they can prove they have been living there, a judge will usually side with them.

Take them to court for "Unlawful Detainer". (aka--start the legal eviction process.) My last tenant I had to do that to never even showed up for the court date so I won by default. Then is was scheduling with the county sheriff to supervise the forced eviction. (Stuff on the side of the road)

It is a huge pain, but in the end it will be worth it! Good luck!

[JPVendCo.]

you could remove the outside doors from the house for "repairs"

[antoniocinisi]

you could remove the outside doors from the house for "repairs"

I like your thinking but it could backfire.Ive been drinking for a few hours so this is my drunken opinion

[The Mage]

Actually that may also be illegal.

[Paraflier]

Yes. Removing a door just might be frowned upon.  Like shutting off utilities. "Your service panel needs repair. And since we don't want to switch it out hot, we need to disconnect your electricity for a couple weeks till we can get repair crews in. Why a couple weeks? Well we have to let the electricity drain out of the wires, silly. Don't want anyone getting hurt!"

[JPVendCo.]

why is it taking so long? cause I a F$&%ing broke GOLPHERhole!!! pay your rent!

[lurtsman]

I really do not understand the eviction laws in this country. If someone does not pay rent, they are there illegally and the police should remove them while you change the locks, and allow for a scheduled time for them to come and remove their things. Laws tend to be far more complicated than they need to be. It's a real challenge to deal with someone who has nothing to lose.

What are the laws about appliances? For instance, if you go in and take your dishwasher, laundry machine, and dryer out, is that illegal? Is it illegal to start calling them at work each day to ask why they have not paid rent? Your lease really should include a 10$ per day late fee attached to overdue rent. Of course, the contract is only as good as your ability to enforce it. I would certainly offer to pay for a large U haul, and even to line up an apartment for them. I'd advise a friendly landlord to draft a rental agreement that did not become active without his endorsement, and once they had their crap packed I'd lock up the place. When they drove to the other place they would find out they were stuck outside. Something in this has to be illegal, but it certainly would not be immoral IMO.

Dealing with a very golpherish management company, my wife and I are excited to buy our first home (this spring hopefully, come on first time home buyer incentive program!!!)

[Mikey B]

SO does the bank have the house, or do you?

[JPVendCo.]

I really do not understand the eviction laws in this country.

ALOT of laws about tenants are Liberal BS!! "you can't throw out a NON PAYING!! tenant that doesnt have a place to go (boo-hoo)  You can't shut down utilities ( even if YOU are paying for them)

Crack-head whores that happen to push out a little hell-spawn have the landlords by the Balls. I know a landlord that wont rent to single moms. or single woman in general. Which is discrimination, I know, but if the laws were not so biased against him, it wouldn't happen. Of course, he would never say that out loud, then he would be up creek for that too....

[Paraflier]

ALOT of laws about tenants are Liberal BS!! "you can't throw out a NON PAYING!! tenant that doesn't have a place to go (boo-hoo)  You can't shut down utilities ( even if YOU are paying for them)

Crack-head whores that happen to push out a little hell-spawn have the landlords by the Balls.

True. That's why you have to document, document, document! Rent is late on the 5th. Banks close at 5. 5:01 the 3 day Pay or Quit goes on the door, in the mail, and in the file.

[sbishop]

Once agian, I manage an apartment complex of 159 units(my JOB). most of the people here do not know the laws. I give them a 3 day notice to vacate and they start begging me to work it out with them.

That paper means nothing, unless I go to court and file for an eviction. The proccess takes about 20 days and then the constible comes out and watches us put their stuff at the road.

I am dealing with someone who knows the system and filed an appeal and has been here for 3 months without paying rent. my court date for them in the 18th.

I hope you get this worked out!

[JPVendCo.]

If there is any landlord associations you can join, i recommend doing so. You can weed out bad renters a little easier, because they were probably bad renters somewhere else before now. they can probably get you access to background and credit checks.

[antoniocinisi]

If there is any landlord associations you can join, i recommend doing so. You can weed out bad renters a little easier, because they were probably bad renters somewhere else before now. they can probably get you access to background and credit checks.

this will only work on the off chance that the other landlord is part of that association and if he reports them I think.

[JPVendCo.]

thats true, but you would be able to weed at least some out and  you also can get access to background checks and credit checks.

[mission vending]

I've got a buddy that has three rental; properties. He's told me you can get that anywhere, you don't need an association for that, they just need to sign a waiver allowing you to get that information. Make them pay a nonrefundable application fee to cover the expense. Always talk to previous landlords. Not the most recent, the one before that, the most recent will give a good reference to get rid of them. At least that's how he does it here in Texas and has not had any problems with renters in a long long time.