caserri Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 I know we have a lot of really smart members on this board who probably have some very strong opinions about this issue. At the risk of starting a huge war, (civilized debate would be nice) I thought I'd open this thread. To be honest, I know very little about what is going on with this, forgive me. What I do know is that the only thing I want/need in terms of healthcare is the ability to be able to actually afford to go to a real doctor instead of relying on WebMD to treat my family. I live in a state where health insurance is reqiured so yes I do have it but it pays nothing until I reach my deductible which is far more than I spend on medical bills to begin with. So I am actually paying cash for all my medical bills rendering my "insurance" useless to me. The only benefit for having it is avoiding the penalty on my state taxes at the end of the year. The way I see it is ANY change has to be good. It can't get any worse for me personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alyssamma Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 Really, you don't want to start a war? I'll just say that I am 100% for it. My only problem is that it doesn't go far enough. We should have 100% coverage for all of our citizens, period. I am lucky enough to be able to pay for insurance, but I am like you Steve in that I have a high deductable plan so basically pay for everything out of pocket. But I have several family members who have serious medical problems and can't get the help they need because they either don't have insurance or have bad insurance. It should be simple...if you are sick, you get treated. No questions. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caserri Posted March 21, 2010 Author Share Posted March 21, 2010 Really, you don't want to start a war? Are you calling my bluff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faith Vending Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 This bill will further bankrupt this country and make the government even bigger. If you like big government intrusion, higher taxes and dealing with the government for health care when they can't even do Cash for Klunkers right this bill is for you. Oh yeah I forgot less freedom too; Steve I think you already have this wonderful plan in your State...how is it working out for you? Not good I understand. A really bad piece of legislation for many reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iolaus Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 I really don't know much about the issue. My only real opinion is that all the Senators and Representatives are covered under whatever "public option" they pass. I believe if they are actually required to live by the laws they pass, we might get better laws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caserri Posted March 21, 2010 Author Share Posted March 21, 2010 Steve I think you already have this wonderful plan in your State...how is it working out for you? Well as I said, It really doesn't help me at all. The legislation doesn't do anything to change the way health insurance companies operate or even how doctors operate (no pun intended). All it does is require me to pay for health insurance or face a steep penalty on my state taxes. For some, the penalty is actually LESS than the cost of insurance so it really doesn't make sense. It seems that the state is more interested in generating revenue than helping its citizens obtain affordable health insurance. The only insurance I can afford has such an outrageous deductible that it is useless to me. I am basically paying the premium just to avoid the penalty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mission vending Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 While I do agree that there are many changes that can be made to improve accessibility and cost, in general I'm going to have to play the other side of the field. Let insurance companies sell in any state, enact a no prexisting conditions law, require everyone to have insurance, figure out how to help low income people get covered and then let the marketplace figure out the rest. I'll bet that solution will be more effective and cheaper than anything they can shove up our _____. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faith Vending Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 Well as I said, It really doesn't help me at all. The legislation doesn't do anything to change the way health insurance companies operate or even how doctors operate (no pun intended). All it does is require me to pay for health insurance or face a steep penalty on my state taxes. For some, the penalty is actually LESS than the cost of insurance so it really doesn't make sense. It seems that the state is more interested in generating revenue than helping its citizens obtain affordable health insurance. The only insurance I can afford has such an outrageous deductible that it is useless to me. I am basically paying the premium just to avoid the penalty. That sounds unconstitutional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kai1836 Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 Cost and benefits aside I find the arrogant behavior of the majority party to be disgusting and offfensive. I am looking forward to November. That being said this bill will have very negative affects on my family and our business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillbilly Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 We have health insurance through my wife's employer. While it is not the best policy in the world, we choose to pay for it. We still have the ability to see the doctor of our choice and when we deem it necessary. I believe that if the plan passes we would lose those privileges. And probably have to pay more than we already are. I lost my daughter six years ago(she was 16) and without health care coverage it would have bankrupted us. It almost did anyway. So I believe insurance is necessary but should not be chosen for us. Hillbilly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alyssamma Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 This bill will further bankrupt this country and make the government even bigger. If you like big government intrusion, higher taxes and dealing with the government for health care when they can't even do Cash for Klunkers right this bill is for you. Oh yeah I forgot less freedom too; Steve I think you already have this wonderful plan in your State...how is it working out for you? Not good I understand. A really bad piece of legislation for many reasons. Cost and benefits aside I find the arrogant behavior of the majority party to be disgusting and offfensive. I am looking forward to November. That being said this bill will have very negative affects on my family and our business. Faith/Kai, a few questions... 1) Are you against universal healthcare, or just this particular healthcare bill? In other words, do you think every American should have healthcare (*and* have it paid for by the government - which means people via taxes - if they can't afford it)? 2) Can you give specifics on your statements? For example, Faith, how is this less freedom? Do you mean because we will be required to have health insurance? Then, if so, is requiring us to have auto insurance less freedom? Or wearing seatbelts? Or any other the hundreds of other things the gov regulates. 3) Kai, how specifically will it hurt your family and your business? And, does this mean that *any* legislation which does something like raise taxes you would be against? 4) Faith, you said this would further bankrupt the gov. Whether or not this is true, does this mean you are against things which increase the defict? So are you against the Iraq war? 5) No one will say that our gov (or any gov) runs efficiently. But certainly the same can be said for private enterprise too. Regardless, do you think our gov can't manage a healthcare program? If so, do you want to end Medicare/Medicaid? Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alyssamma Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 Hillbilly, I could be wrong, but I don't think the proposed bill picks a plan for you. You still have the same options you have now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillbilly Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 Yes at 400.00 + per month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillbilly Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 I should clarify that. I don't mind paying for our health care. We deem it necessary due to our past circumstances. I also have a medical condition that requires maintenance prescriptions. What I do mind is that my tax dollars paying for others when I get no tax break on mine (if it ends up being higher). If the national plan has the same coverages at the same cost than I'm Ok with that. Again, I'm not above helping others. I just don't think I should pay mine and others both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillbilly Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 We do get a credit for the flexible spending portion that we contribute to. But that is above and beyond the 400.00 per month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alyssamma Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 Hillbilly, where do those numbers come from? I can give you specific numbers on my end. I have a $10K deductible. I never reached my limit, which means I pay 100% of my healthcare costs. I just got a renewal notice and my premiums have gone up 35%. This is happening everywhere. Just because *you* personally haven't seen it, I'll bet your wife's employer has. That cost just hasn't been (at least fully) passed on to you - yet. Still, how do you know your premiums will be $400? And, lastly, if it meant helping others, isn't that a small price to pay? Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alyssamma Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 Hillbilly, sorry, we cross posted. I think you made a good point. However, I still don't think there is a national plan. But, to be honest, the bill has been changed so many times I'm confused about exactly what is in it To be honest, I hate the proposed healthplan - but for reasons different than Faith and Kai. IMHO it doesn't go far enough. We should have a very simple plan where everyone gets the medical treatment they need. Period. That being said, I must think baby steps Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillbilly Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 Yes, I am thinking the same way. One item at a time. Our premium's now are 400.00 per month. We chose the 90/10 plan. This also includes dental and vision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillbilly Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 Our deductibles are 3000. So I see your point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mission vending Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 I have a 5K deductible for me and the two kids and pay 287/month. I could take a lower or higher deductible but choose not to simply for the fact that I am willing to assume that level of risk. That is my choice. I don't want the gov't (or anyone else for that matter) telling me what I have to spend on my insurance or not. Find a way to make it more accessible for all is the only gov't intervention I support. The way they have gone about passing this bill by ramming it through is simply disgusting and shameful. The American people in opinion polls are against the way this plan is being passed as well. It's this type of arrogance that leads to the anger and frustration that leads some to act with violence, like the guy that flew his plane into the IRS building in Austin a few weeks ago. I certainly don't condone his action but I can almost understand the reason behind it. Our government won't listen. The Dems will pay an awfully high price in November and I for one will be glad to see them go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caserri Posted March 22, 2010 Author Share Posted March 22, 2010 Yes, I am thinking the same way. One item at a time. Our premium's now are 400.00 per month. We chose the 90/10 plan. This also includes dental and vision. Hey Hillbilly, I'll trade you my $800 per month insurance policy for your $400 per month one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillbilly Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 No thanks. Then again $400.00 down here is probably that up there. Cost of living is pretty good here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillbilly Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 With premiums like that wouldn't you get some deductions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alyssamma Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 Mission, ignoring for now whether or not the polls are accurate (i.e., the way the Qs were asked didn't skew the results), let's say you are correct and the majority of Americans don't want this bill. Are you saying that anytime congress has passed a bill that the majority of Americans don't want they are wrong? To me, what is disgusting and shameful is how this has turned into a D vs R battle. And how the arguments are high level, hyperbolic, and mostly based on what people have heard others say. The reality is, unless you've read the 2K page bill, how are arguing from ignorance. Whether you listen to CNN or Fox news, your info is biased. You need to go to the source to get the facts. I want to be clear I am *not* accusing you of this. I don't know you nearly well enough to say it is true or not true. I'm in the same boat. I freely admit I don't fully understand the health bill. I don't know if premiums will go up or down. So, I try to argue the ethical POV which is Universal Health Care = Good. For the record, I've stated several times I am *against* this bill. Look, this bill has a tanning salon tax in it. I own a tanning salon. I'm not crazy about a 10% tax for that. That being said, the facts are we are now where we are. For better or worse, these are the cards we have so we have to play them. Too many people in this country have gone too long without coverage. Let's pass this bill now and then pass other bills to make it better. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caserri Posted March 22, 2010 Author Share Posted March 22, 2010 Sorry, typo, I had a different bill on my mind when I posted. I edited my post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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