Healthcare reform

[bacho]

This is a great thread. I haven't been able to respond on a individual basis because I'm busy as heck now. Here's a little reality check for those who support this bill and think their premiums won't skyrocket through the roof.

I work in the Health Care Industry and get first hand knowlege on what is going to take place. Right now the insurance companies are paying 55-45, give or take a few percentage points. This meaning, they pay 55% to the doctor, hospital...etc. The 45% is for administration fees, paperwork...etc. This bill mandates that the insurance companies run on a 85-15 rate. What do you think will happen to your premiums? They will double because the insurance companies can not eat that big of a hike.

Now on the other hand, the Democrats that pushed this bill through will be campaigning on the premise that your premiums did not go up when this was put into law. True, but here's the truth behind the smoke and mirrors. Premiums are renewed on a yearly basis....January to December of each fiscal year. You won't see any increase until January 2011. By then, the November election will be over and too late. Don't be fooled by these sly politicians. If you think the govenment is looking out for the best interest of the people of this great country, think again.

The bill also mandates that everyone has to have insurance or they will pay a penalty. In other words, if you are working or not, you have to have a policy. That goes for part time employees too. So, in arguement of the small business owner that hires just part time employees so they don't have to provide insurance, will be forced to provide insurance or pay a penalty. How long do think these businesses will be able to operate under those conditions?

Please look through the smoke and mirrors to find out what this administrations agenda is. They want a government run single payer system. It may take a few years but it will be put in place. Do you really want government to dictate what you can or not do? What you can or can not purchase? How much your wages should be? Fine you if you don't comply? Jail you if you refuse? Where is our freedom headed? I see it slowly but surely turn toward a third world country. I hope and pray to god it's not true but the writing is on the wall.

[alyssamma]

Craig, I know I said I wasn't going to reply anymore, but I had to reply to your post

The bill does *not* mandate everyone have insurance. It mandates people above a certain income level have insurance. And then only if they can find a policy with premiums less than 8% of their income. This is why the bill does not cover 100% of Americans.

Second, only businesses with more than 50 employees will be required to provide insurance.

Third, I just got my insurance renewal about 1mo ago. My premiums rose 25%. They rose 35% the year before, so I guess I should be happy. I have a high deductible plan. The amount my insurance company paid for claims for me over the past 2yrs - $0. I paid everything because my deductible is $10K. I don't know what the bill will do for premiums but it can't be much worse than what is happening now. 

Lastly, do you understand what the term "Third World County" means? Providing healthcare for citizens - even requiring it - is the exact opposite of that term. It is one of the few things moving us *away* from that. Out crime and drug problems, lack of education of our citizens, crumbling infrastructure, etc...these things *are* moving us towards 3rd world status.

Kevin

[dperry]

And, for all of you who think the Post Office is a "failure" of government...that is very funny. You have a service that delivers and picks up mail to/from your house for half the cost of a can of soda. It was started over 200yrs ago by Benjamin Franklin and has survived the test of time. It has seen competition from the private sector from companies like UPS and FedEx. Still, it provides excellent service.

Is it having some financial problems now? Yes. Does that mean it is a failure? No. It simply means that times have changed and it needs to also - raise the cost of a stamp to $0.50, not deliver on Saturdays, etc.

Don't forget to mention that we pay NO taxes to have our mail delivered.  We only pay for the price of a stamp, and that is it.

[dperry]

I too have a high deductable plan with an HSA and I think that works best for me.  What ever monies I do not use in my HSA roll over to the next year and the next.  What I haven't heard anybody talk about with regard to deductables is that most health plans have a negotiated rate for services.  If you are one of those that pays 100% of the cost of treatment until your deductable is met, what you are really doing is paying the NEGOTIATED rate for that health plan, not the full cost of the service.  So even if you have to pay 100% of the negotiated rate, you are still paying less than the full cost of the service.

For instance, the cost of a wellness visit at my clinic is $175.  But my insurance has a negotiated rate for that wellness visit, so my rate is really $106, a savings of about $75.  But I can use my HSA to pay for the cost, which applies to my deductable.

At least, that is the way it is for me and my health plan.  YMMV.

[davidsurvz]

Why is health insurance connected to and provided through employers? This is the standard practice and rule for most people who have health insurance. Why are the insurance companies not able to sell insurance policies cross state lines and offer different tiers of coverage to different individuals. Why is the industry regulated to the point that there is no room for real free market competition? Supply and demand actually works!!!

If insurance companies are charging higher premiums why isn't there any wiggle room for real competition? Why can't I just go out and find the best deal on my own insurance, Insurance that fits my needs only shop around to get the best price and the best value and make my own purchases the way I do with everything else? Why do I have to go with whatever plan my employer picks?

If company A sells policies that I would be interested in for $10,000.00 per week I wouldn't go near it If company B sells the same policy for $4,000.00 and that is the best price out there then I either need to make more money or go without. Now If millions of people can't afford $4,000.00 or $10,000.00 / week for health insurance then guess what company A and company B will either go out of business or have to lower their prices to something people will buy or company C will start up and start offering policies for $500.00 / week. It is simple supply side economics. My numbers are somewhat exaggerated to make the point.

We already have medicare for those "who can't afford insurance."

If you were to look at the real costs involved in running one of those "BIG EVIL INSURANCE CORPORATIONS" (I just threw that in for our liberal friends here on the forum. ) You would see how much these regulations and restrictions add to the cost of doing business. I have no problem with regulations being put in place to keep industries in line but there comes a point where it just isn't worth it .

My understanding on this new bill is that the reserve capital for payout is going to change from 65% to 85% let me ask you an honest question. Could you run a health insurance company on only 15% of its revenue? Could you run ANY company on 15% of its revenue? Any honest answer is NO!

What this will do is cause premiums to skyrocket or insurance companies to go out of business.

Free market competition has worked for everything in our country just fine for quite some time (over two centuries) regulation and taxation in excess have driven manufacturing and other jobs overseas and tax and spend practices DON"T WORK!!!! Look at California! I lived out there for 15 years I saw taxes and fees and regulations sending people and businesses out of there in mass exodus the last 4 or 5 years I was out there. Now the state is bankrupt. (it actually was bankrupt under Gray Davis.) I am sure that is really the fault of "BIG EVIL CORPORATIONS" and not really tax and spend practices and regulations and fees, etc. I probably have some twisted sense of reality.............Oh wait, now that I think about not one person I knew who left (myself included) wasn't citing "BIG EVIL CORPORATIONS" as the reason why they were leaving.

Did you start your vending business to provide gumballs for everyone especially those who can't afford them? No you are doing this to make a profit. That is what you run a business for... PROFIT!!!!!

You have a responsibility to run your business in the right way or guess what you will go out of business. Oh wait there is one other thing that has put companies out of business...........Government! Even when the companies were being run the right way. It happens!

We are already paying inflated prices for lots of things due to taxes, fees and regulations...

If my understanding of this bill is correct this will actually destroy insurance companies as we know them. (Those BIG EVIL INSURANCE CORPORATIONS... serves them right. )

I have bounced around here somewhat............ sorry. I have plenty to say about this but I am very limited on time.

I really don't think my comments matter much anyway. People see things how they see them usually until life hits them between the eyes.

[Faith Vending]

Well said David. What we are doing is transferring $ from producers to non producers and then make the producers feel like they are in the wrong because they are successful. Ain't gonna work this time. Producers are tapped and have given enough to people who are really just hoping the government or anyone will take care of them.

[bacho]

Craig, I know I said I wasn't going to reply anymore, but I had to reply to your post

The bill does *not* mandate everyone have insurance. It mandates people above a certain income level have insurance. And then only if they can find a policy with premiums less than 8% of their income. This is why the bill does not cover 100% of Americans.

Second, only businesses with more than 50 employees will be required to provide insurance.

Third, I just got my insurance renewal about 1mo ago. My premiums rose 25%. They rose 35% the year before, so I guess I should be happy. I have a high deductible plan. The amount my insurance company paid for claims for me over the past 2yrs - $0. I paid everything because my deductible is $10K. I don't know what the bill will do for premiums but it can't be much worse than what is happening now. 

Lastly, do you understand what the term "Third World County" means? Providing healthcare for citizens - even requiring it - is the exact opposite of that term. It is one of the few things moving us *away* from that. Out crime and drug problems, lack of education of our citizens, crumbling infrastructure, etc...these things *are* moving us towards 3rd world status.

Kevin

Kevin

I’ll start by saying what I ended with on my post. Look through the smoke and mirrors and you see the true agenda for this administration. They are filled with lies and deception.

First answer:

I don’t know where you got that impression but maybe you can tell me how 30 million more people will get insurance that claim they can’t? From what you just said, there will more than 30 million people without insurance even with the new bill in place because there will be no provider that will sell a policy at that rate. Taking that in perspective, the unemployment rate will be higher than 10 percent. You just made my case about the hidden agenda behind this administration. They will force the companies out of business and implement the government run single payer system.

Second answer:

There’s plenty of numbers out there to debate so we’ll just stick to the one you mentioned. You say business are not affected unless they employ 50 or more people. That number is another deception. True, the mom and pop businesses will not be affected. But there isn’t too many of them around any more. I’m talking about the businesses that expanded and have maybe 3 or 4 other stores. It’s the total number of employees, not per store. Most small businesses will be at or around that magic number of 50. Even the small contractor will be affected. He may employ 20 or 30 directly, but what nobody realizes is that he has to claim sub-contractors also. Unfortunately I don’t have a percentage of small businesses that will not be affected but I feel confident in saying it will be in the single digits.

Here’s how the business owner that will be exempt from the health care fine. The magic number of $250,000 will be taxed. Now take in consideration, that’s gross sales, not net.  The majority of tiny businesses make that easily. More businesses closing….more unemployment. More government control of the people because they have nowhere to turn to except the government.

Third answer:

If you’re paying 100% of a bill because your deductable is 10,000, your premium must very low. What you just explained makes a valid point. The uninformed Americans that think They will get a great policy and only have to spend a few bucks out of their pocket are going to be in for a big surprise. I feel your pain. It’s really unfortunate that you have no choice to go with another company. This is what was proposed by the Republicans to Obama but every Democrat shot it down. You see, this is not the type of thing they want the people of this country to have. They will not be able to control the people of the country if we had a choice. Another part of the hidden agenda. That word CONTROL has been popping up all over the place from democrats lately.

Last answer:

I know exactly what that term means. I didn’t say we were there yet but are headed in that direction. Out crime and drug problems? California is trying to legalize illegal drugs.

Lack of education. Schools are closing because people are moving to states that have jobs. Most of those states are run by Republicans. The school system has taken out quite a bit of things since I’ve been there. A majority, not all, don’t even teach the kids the Declaration Of Independence any more. If you ask them what it is, they have no clue what you’re talking about. As I said, it won’t happen overnight. It took the socialists a century to get this far.

Crumbling infrastructure. One word explains this. DETROIT!

I’ll close by saying to just wake up and don’t believe everything you hear from the mainstream media. Take the telepromtor away and you will hear bits and pieces of the hidden agenda. Listen with an open mind. It really is scary. The talk shows are the same way. Listen beyond the fear mongering and get the message. Listen to the clips played from the people of this administrations own mouths.

[agrantha]

Guys stop wasting your time going back and forward about this stuff.  Work on things you have control over.  Eat what's on your plate.  If you get full before your plate is empty, then save it for leftovers.

[bacho]

There's nothing wrong with a healthy debate. If I'm not mistaking, that's why Steve started this. I may be wrong. 

[Poplady1]

David...lets try to get the programs straight....

Medicare is not for individuals that can not afford insurance.  It is for people that have worked all of their life to retire.  It is a program operating just as a private insurance company with everyone paying premiums into the plan.  You can opt in or out, your choice.

Medicad is for the disadvantaged and unemployeed.  They too have rates and deductibles and requirements to get into that plan. Not everyone can get Medicad coverage, there is no insurance available for the uninsurable in this country.  People with high blood pressure are just one example of the uninsurable in our country.

Also real vending companies, ones with 100 or more employees are lucky to report a 2 to 3% profit at the end of the year.  Check NAMA.

Main Stream Media simply means news reported to the middle of America, the core of the country. ABC, CBS, NBC or CNN are examples of main stream media.  Main stream media is not a bad thing.

Blue Moose

[bacho]

Main Stream Media simply means news reported to the middle of America, the core of the country. ABC, CBS, NBC or CNN are examples of main stream media.  Main stream media is not a bad thing.

Blue Moose

Main Stream media is not bad if you only want to get what they want you to hear. This is why Fox's rating has blown the roof off. Heck, the Cartoon Network has more viewers than MSNBC and CNN combined. I was a faithful viewer of Lou Dobbs. They got rid of him because he wasn't far enough left for them. He was revealing too much about the present administration. It was alright for him to bash the Bush Administration and reveal the plans for immigration reform but to bash Obama was against their agenda. So it was bye bye Louie.

[Poplady1]

So what you are really saying is you have a problem with the Democratic party or with the President?  Or just black representatives and Presidents? (the elephant in the room) Fox certainly has a problem with all of the above and John Stewarts program has much higher ratings then Fox.  Most young voters under 35 get their news from Stewart because they feel he is believable(?)...and those younger people vote.

There is nothing in this health bill that should concern anyone about health care.  All of the public assistance and public options was stripped out of it.  The only winners here would be insurance companies receiving all of the new clients. Insurance companies will no longer be able to turn down someone with a preexisting conditions with some premium caps, they cannot drop a insured that becomes ill and children will be able to remain on their parents policy until they are 26 or working. Cobra benefits will be extended for unemployed workers, tax credits will be given to people that cannot afford insurance (how many poor people do you know that needs tax credits against their poverty income) and everyone will be required to carry some type of insurace or pay $750 a year (62.50 a month) and basically that gives you the right to walk into any hospital in our country for medical service which will be covered by taxpayers (which is the current process).

I would support you and your cause if you would be willing to stand behind a strong public option to run right along side the for profit insurance companies. Now that would be the type of change this country desperately needs in my view .

Bev

[whaletail116]

Agrantha, what about the next guy who's plate is empty?  What about his infant and toddler children?  I'd prefer his children eat before my leftovers go into the fridge.

Heading off to see Mr. Obama as we speak.  Hopefully he has a lot of good things to say and answers at least a few questions as well!

[whaletail116]

Overall, I had a good time.  He didn't take questions but did seem to absolutely embarrass the guy that was screaming his conservative propaganda. 

"32,000,000 Americans that weren't previously insured will be."

"This bill isn't going to cover every single want by every single person, but it is a step in the right direction towards universal heathcare for every citizen."

Some pretty good stuff.

[snack dude]

Poplady, Are you saying that anybody who does not have 100 or more employees is not a real vending company.

My impression is you just eliminated the vast majority of the good people on this site as not real vending companies

Please tell me you did not mean to say that

[alyssamma]

Snack Dude, I think you and everyone else here knows exactly what she meant. Yes, most people here are *not* real vending companies. In fact, most people here don't even have a business entity and the few that do are single member LLCs.

That has zero to do with the quality of the people here.

Why would that statement bother you?

Kevin

[Faith Vending]

Overall, I had a good time.  He didn't take questions but did seem to absolutely embarrass the guy that was screaming his conservative propaganda. 

"32,000,000 Americans that weren't previously insured will be."

"This bill isn't going to cover every single want by every single person, but it is a step in the right direction towards universal heathcare for every citizen."

Some pretty good stuff.

Pardon me will I puke.

[whaletail116]

Go for it!  That might be good for you.

[davidsurvz]

So what you are really saying is you have a problem with the Democratic party or with the President?  Or just black representatives and Presidents?

Who is really saying that?? And please clearly define where it is actually being said.

[davidsurvz]

Also real vending companies, ones with 100 or more employees are lucky to report a 2 to 3% profit at the end of the year.  Check NAMA.

Blue Moose

I am not talking about a 15% profit. I am saying that all expenses and all operating costs and all salaries and all administrative cost, etc...... ALL COSTS for the companies are to be covered on only 15% of the total revenue from these insurance companies. The ratio of cash reserve to payout on claims is going from 65% to 85% of revenue.  What company can operate on that?

I may be wrong...... I hope I am but that is my understanding of this.

[davidsurvz]

The midterm elections of 2010 will be exciting to watch as our country continues to change the makeup of our registered voters.  With conservatives having 27% of the voting public, Independents  16% and liberals with 44% it should be a very interesting event.  

Interesting quote from the article......

It would certainly explain things like the loss of the "Kennedy seat" to Scott Brown  

.

I am glad that we have the freedom in this GREAT country to have these discussions. No matter what anyone says about this subject or any other for that matter this is still the greatest country in the world. In my opinion (I'm sure there are those who would disagree with that too..... )

I would like to also say that I used to be very liberal minded but over the years I have come to realize that I really do agree with self reliance, independence and accepting responsibility for your own life. I don't believe we need the government to fix our problems. I am very charitable and I believe in helping people who can't help themselves. I believe that the citizens of this country are for the most part are some of the most honorable people in the world. Never mind this stuff sounds too cheesy to keep rambling on  I just think this country and our freedoms and our citizens are awesome!!!

OK out of time......... I might be back later

[snack dude]

First it doesnt bother me but I do feel that it was insulting to the members of this site.

I am incorporated. I have raised and put three kids though catholic schools. My kids have worked or are working their way though collage by working for our not real vending buisness. I make my living and provide for my family and help others provide for their families with my small and evidently not real vending company. I wonder if I can call the IRS and tell them that my company isnt real.

[alyssamma]

Snack Dude, the problem is the sarcasm...which again your injected into the debate by the last line of your post. You know very well that Poplady wasn't speaking in a legal sense. I personally have 3 companies - an S-Corp and 2 LLCs. If I go to the bank for a loan, they use my personal credit and not that of any of my companies. This is because these companies are only real in a legal sense.

I also used to have a C-Corp with 12 employees - I would call that a "real" company.

I don't know what the criteria for a vending company to be "real", but you know the context in which she was speaking.

Making ad hominem attacks does nothing to further a debate. Neither does parsing language to take things out of context.

Look, I'm calling you on this because I know you are better than this. You don't need to attack at this level. If I thought that was all you could do, I would have kept my "fingers" shut.

Kevin

[snack dude]

Kevin I apoligize

You are on to me. Playing devils advocate and sarcasm is one of my favorite things to do.

There are really very very few things in life that I take seriously.

I did not mean to insult you or anyone else.

Unless it is about trying  to help someone with a vending problem, everything else is written with my tongue planted firmly in my cheek.

I was trying to be funny, obviously I failed

Best regards

Snack Dude

[kai1836]

  Kevin,

  Let's find some commonground here. As in you surely don't think the government should be buying convicted sex offenders viagra?