Vending Ethics

[Hillbilly]

I think this topic depends on whether or not the bulk operator wants to be succuessful or not. Taking business from another salesperson is why it is called sales. You have to be willing to do that to grow the business. Sure there are unscrupulous business practices but that's just part of the game. We all have competition we dislike and those that we like.

I for one am not going to pass on a location just because machines are already there. If I can't get the other guy throwed out, I will at least try to get my machines in there, whether it is a single or not. Heck, some of my single gumball machines do quite well sitting next to a rack. Sometimes in sales you are better off being the #2 instead of the a wisher.

[newheart53]

Let me ask this. O K so you have buddies and you would leave their stuff alone, great, but what if the proprieter was upset with them or wanted something extra [machines, commision, updated, no trust] then as a friend wouldn't you go or call your buddy and let him know he's missing the boat on that acct. Still you would not know that if you didn't talk to the owner. If your friend is dropping the ball on accts. you either have to have a talk with him or step in. I didn't really figure that if you have an really close friend that you golf or have dinner with that you take his stuff, I'm talking about competition.

[nepavend]

newheart,

I speak for myself, but if I walk into a location I always approach and pitch them regardless, sometimes I miss competitiors machines because of tunnel vision. It is good practice even if they say no or you find out later about your buddies machines being there. In those cases I ask if they are getting good service and a commission. If they are, I thank them for their time and move on. If your scenario happens I would contact my friend and let him know what happened so he could address it. Next cycle if his stuff is out you know what to do.

[GagesVending]

I don't see anything wrong with poaching locations with machines. I'm proud to place one of my machines next to a competitor of mine! The only thing is that you don't do as well in sales with competition. We are all here running a business, and in order to run a business, we can't be afraid of our competition...we have to take them on and prove to be better!

[mission vending]

I don't see anything wrong with poaching locations with machines. I'm proud to place one of my machines next to a competitor of mine! The only thing is that you don't do as well in sales with competition. We are all here running a business, and in order to run a business, we can't be afraid of our competition...we have to take them on and prove to be better!

Competition is what makes this country great.

[fun factory]

This has been one of the better topics on here. I am dealing with some ethical issues right now with the seller of a route I purchased. Here is one experience I can share, majority of what I do is DVD Vending Machines. I had a meeting with a potential location and another person in the business also had a meeting with them. I discovered about the other vendor, because he called me, and asked me for advice and how to actually service a location far from his home base. I didn't give him much and did level with him that we were both working on the same store. When I visited the store, and had my meeting I discussed with her the benefits of going with someone experienced. And then the owner said that the other person they interviewed offered a ridiculous commission. I thought to myself, this guy is going ruin this location for any decent operator. So, during the interview I reinierated that you don't want someone cutting their teeth on your store and discussed that I had two people (I did not give the owner names) call me last week and ask how to work a location that is far from them, and I told him they were from from XXX town and XXX town. The owner got the picture, and I got the location. I really thought they would have taken the higher commission, but in the end made a the right decision. Two months later the other guy soliciting the location asked me if I wanted to purchase his machines.

[jimbo7256]

Your in business to make money. I get locations all the time with some of my vending buddies in them already. I don't think any if them get mad. Maybe because most of them are much bigger than myself. It does not bother me when another vendor moves in. I service my machines well and usually have a good relationship with customer. I have been doing this since 1998. And I have never been evicted because they want another vendor. I do charity and commission.

[LandJGroup]

I call on any account that makes since. I dont let my competition dictate whom I call on. My attitude is relentless. I was in much more cut throat selling then bulk before I started (medical sales) so moving and shaking is natural to me.

[onecent@atime]

I have been in this business since 1995 and even though there have been many changes one thing that remains the same is the never ending new guy. So what happens is there are always new operators all going for the same locations because lets face it there are more new operators than new locations. I have a couple of friends in the business that all respect each other and we will NOT go after each others locations. In fact we have a copy of each others keys and if one of us is out and about we will help each other out is we are near a out of order machine etc. But everyone else is fair game. I will do what ever it takes to get another location and boot the current operator. I will not lie or bad talk another operator but I will provide a location owner with the facts and let them make their own choice. For example we have an operator here in Alabama that tells locations he will pay 50%. But what he fails to tell them is that he first deducts 30% for product. So he is really paying 35%. I keep paper work from every major vending chairty in the van so that I can help inform locations owners of the truth when they are under the impression that the chairty machine is owned by the charity and all the income goes to help others. I share a ton of locations with Service Vending and I have a sales edge because I place good looking machines. One day I was at a super market that I service and the owner was there so after I serviced the machines we talked for about an hour. You see the owner has been a friend of mine for years and he owns 3 others that i also service. Well in wals a Service Vending guy that askes for the owner and the cashier pointed him out and he walked over and began to talk. We stood there and just listened. After hearing a few lies including a few about me the owner told him no thank you and he left. Since them I have been trying to take over every location of theirs I can.

One thing that has helped me get others bulk locations is that I also offer cranes and other redemption.

Going into the details of charity vending in order to steel a location is like going into the secret sauce of mcdonalds to sell  wendys jr bacon cheese burger. I think its a little underhanded. The most i have ever said is make sure the vendor puts choke hazard labels on the toy machines .

There is a guy in my area with at least 2,000 heads who also tells everyone he pays 50% so I have been after some of his locations as I just dont like the way he operates. He paid a 75.00 commision to a loc that he had a rack with 2 30" nw 80's a 3 column sticker and 4) 1" machines. A few machines were empty and the rest were below 25% full. So I figure he gave them about 20% commission.

This same guy always counts the money in his van so I tell location owners if he trully gives you 50% next time he comes in ask him to count the quarters in front of you and see how much he gives you.

I dont like when people flat out lie to Locations makes us all look bad. If he wants to give them 10 or 20% be honest and tell the location that.

Do you kill the cow to make sure its really angus beef? No you dont you trust the business owner, dont tell these owners to be little another man because you think he's lying  Earn the business then earn the exclusive rights.Your messing with the method of feeding a mans family that can get you hurt.

[Action Vending]

Going into the details of charity vending in order to steel a location is like going into the secret sauce of mcdonalds to sell  wendys jr bacon cheese burger. I think its a little underhanded. The most i have ever said is make sure the vendor puts choke hazard labels on the toy machines .

Do you kill the cow to make sure its really angus beef? No you dont you trust the business owner, dont tell these owners to be little another man because you think he's lying  Earn the business then earn the exclusive rights.Your messing with the method of feeding a mans family that can get you hurt.

In this situation that is not even close to the truth. More like a wolf in sheep's clothing. Think about it, if he paid them 75.00 and was giving 50% then the total sales was 150. Again a 7 head rack. one of the nw super 80's 30" tall which holds 225 pieces was completely empty that means there was 106.25 in that machine alone. The other Nw super 80 was less than half so figure another 50.00 there. that is 156.25 total. Now this assumes either that there was not any money in the 1" which were all 75% empty or the column. Or that he was flat out lying to the location which he does alot. I wouldnt tell any business owner to trust some one like this. Trust is earned.  It also hadnt been serviced in over 6 months. 

[onecent@atime]

In this situation that is not even close to the truth. More like a wolf in sheep's clothing. Think about it, if he paid them 75.00 and was giving 50% then the total sales was 150. Again a 7 head rack. one of the nw super 80's 30" tall which holds 225 pieces was completely empty that means there was 106.25 in that machine alone. The other Nw super 80 was less than half so figure another 50.00 there. that is 156.25 total. Now this assumes either that there was not any money in the 1" which were all 75% empty or the column. Or that he was flat out lying to the location which he does alot. I wouldnt tell any business owner to trust some one like this. Trust is earned.  It also hadnt been serviced in over 6 months.

you are making assumptions you don't work for this vendor you were not there when the machine was last serviced you don't know whether it was a hundred percent a capacity or 70 percent capacity you don't know if the service date 30 days ago and didn't have any of the products or not, you were not there you are throwing salt on another persons business in order to gain the business they have at that location vs earning the business by showing how good of a vendor you can be you are opening yourself up to underhanded business tactics by the other vendor.

[Action Vending]

you are making assumptions you don't work for this vendor you were not there when the machine was last serviced you don't know whether it was a hundred percent a capacity or 70 percent capacity you don't know if the service date 30 days ago and didn't have any of the products or not, you were not there you are throwing salt on another persons business in order to gain the business they have at that location vs earning the business by showing how good of a vendor you can be you are opening yourself up to underhanded business tactics by the other vendor.

I'm not making assumptions I know that everything was full except the 3 column because i cant see inside. The owner told me everything was full and i have a full line account next door so i can see the rack every week. 

 

Please tell me how you would approach this situation, or were you one of the few people that voted you will only take a location if there are no machines already. 

[onecent@atime]

I'm not making assumptions I know that everything was full except the 3 column because i cant see inside. The owner told me everything was full and i have a full line account next door so i can see the rack every week. 

 

Please tell me how you would approach this situation, or were you one of the few people that voted you will only take a location if there are no machines already.

[/quoteI would negotiate a commission with the owner I would tell the owner there going to be on the 30 or 60 day service cycle I would put in a better machine I would have a better selection and I would cut the commission check or pay out and ask him did he like the service if he doesn't like the service then i'd move on if he doesn't like it I stay there and I would also tell him he has a better chance of making more money if the other vendor was gone so they don't associate my equipment with the other equipment and I go from there. I personally don't care what other vendor is in the location if I can get an exclusive I'll take it if I can we're going to split whatever quarters coming to the door if its profitable for me to be there I'll stay if it's not I'll go.

[Tbuford]

enjoyed reading the thread.

[Nick505]

Somehow I never responded to this however I did vote. I am a relatively small operator but in my area I have two main competitors. Service Vending is one, and the other guy is local (at least I think he is). With the limited number of good locations available I will sell to any location I think I can make money in. It happens that all the pizza places, grocery stores, mini marts, mexican places, laundromats, and china buffets and restaurants are already occupied so this leaves me with dry cleaners, vacuum stores, ect and we all know that these places will not be successful with a rack or amusement. Between service vending and my other local competitor they have the ideal accounts covered. If I want to grow my business I have to pick off their locations as much as I can. I am not worried about my locations being solicited because we all know there is someone knocking on the door trying to take our accounts; that is the business we are in. I have a great relationship with every owner as I was the one who sold them the location in the first place and see them on a regular service routine so I have nothing to worry about. It is also easier to locate machines in locations that already have them because the owners know the routine when it comes to commission and service so it I find I have a higher success with this.

[havending]

I will locate anywhere and use any reasonable method. I will buy new machines for locations with old ones in them. I will give a kick back. I will pay a little more. But the best way is to deliver a complete vending package bulk and redemption. If I see a busy food place or super market with a 5 way only I eat that up. I pay my guys a bonus to secure a location. And they get a little more if they knock out a operator I designate.

[massalonvending]

Oh, this sounds scary.

 

I am apparently timid compared to the rest of you, I don't like taking other accounts unless the owner wants me to, which has happened before. He said I was a frequent customer, and he'd rather help a kid start a business. 

[mission vending]

Oh, this sounds scary.

I am apparently timid compared to the rest of you, I don't like taking other accounts unless the owner wants me to, which has happened before.

If you are going to be successful in business, any business, you cannot be afraid to compete and that means going after other accounts. It does not mean using underhanded methods, it means offering more or better than what your prospective location already has.

Its called competition and it is what makes this country great.

[shanipaqman]

Very interesting perspectives.  Myself, I don't much appreciate being targeted on purpose, so I try to at least make myself known to other vending operators in the area so we at least have a basic respectful relationship, that goes a long way.  Now, it happens, new guy brings the locator to town, just happened to me in the last month, several racks showed up next to mine, but the owners wanted it that way so I either live with it or move on.  But, I am not going to start targeting a vendor unless I feel they are targeting me intentionally.

 

Most of the time if a locator is involved, it is just dumb luck that they got permission to put next to you, so I am not too worried about it.

 

I will go after a rack location though that looks like it is poorly maintained because I feel it reflects poorly on the business it is in, and in the long run, reflects on all bulk vendors.  If that location has a bad experience, the owner will likely say no to future guys that want to give it a shot.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

Good thread.

[jerrybrooksvendall]

now this is a split vote... I do not solicit amusement or crane locations that have machines already, unless its a known enemy that we have already crossed paths like say service vending then i will ...

but with bulk i will go after anything i can get, especially the dollar a month charity machines,mainly because i think that is fraud and dishonest so i make it a point to solicit those locations,(only the good ones,they can keep their quilt stores and vacuum sales showrooms etc.).even when i did charity it was always a commission, just like i would have given location.... and i would tell location how much their donation was for the year to that charity ..

.with the rack commission guys i have some alliances with guys and i want tread on their turf but others i will try too as they do the same to me..

I think bulk is more cutthroat than any biz on the planet, I never get upset when somebody takes a location from me, i just try to return the favor to them.. With amusements and stuff I pretty much have all the guys around me as buddies and we talk all the time,, not many of us cross boundaries and if i have a location in their area ill call them etc..the two other crane operators on both sides of me are best of friends of mine and we hang out at all the shows as none of us bring our wives to the shows ,we just sit and talk about vending and party...

it comes down to this... YOU DONT OWN A LOCATION!! get over it ,, every location you have you will someday lose,, your just renting space and make money as you go..hiring a locator is just dumb if you are a small operator as the "locating of machines" is the one job you should know how to do if you are a vending operator! to not locate yourself is like a having a painting business and not knowing how to paint, or owning a mechanics shop and not knowing how to change oil...sure you can get big enough that you can hire out the labor and then just sit around counting your money, but most people jus t starting this is most important part of being a vending operator..I guess you can keep pumping money into it and eventually it will make a profit, but don't cry when your locations you paid for get taken away..yeah you paid but you don't own squat!

ron

That's a huge philosophy! But I like it! Well said!

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[jerrybrooksvendall]

I have few friends in the business and do not solicit if I see their machines but otherwise it is fair game. Like it was said, there are always new vendors coming in and eventually they will set up next to your machine. I do not like it but know that it will be gone in a year or two since I have outlasted 5 years worth of Vendstar charity machines being placed annually and then left to rot and empty out with no service.

Seeing machines in location is an indicator that it is a good prospect and you can also determine if the vendor is giving good service. But make no mistake about it, a lot of locations could care less if you give them 50%, it still is peanuts compared to their operation as a whole. If they want you out they will kick you out even if you are paying 80%. They just want good service and as little problems as possible. An extra roll or two of quarters is just free money or a saved trip to the bank for change.

I disagree with the statement of counting in front of all location owners. I have a few I count for since they ask for it, but in general I am pretty honest anyway. Sometimes you do not even know who the owner is in certain accounts. I do not lie about giving 50%. Controlling your cash flow is what keeps you in this business. If you give that up to all of your customers you may as well work for them instead of yourself. Just my opinion.

Let me know where these vendstars are...I would like to buy some more...real cheap!

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Let me know where these vendstars are...I would like to buy some more...real cheap!

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Why is everyone talking about kicking anyone out? If a customer has enough room... Share the land! Vending is a billion dollar biz...

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[musser]

Well it depends on the competitor. Most are pretty aggressive. There are some though that are very easy to get fling with, I have made fine good friends, even omg my competitors. This can be of great benefit when the time comes to sell.

[Pete Schweddy]

I drop kick my competition then I give them a Pete schweddy sack to the face.