GFCI keep tripping

[Randy 805]

Hey guys, so I've been slowly upgrading my machines with different things,

 

LED Lighting - http://www.veii.com/innovations/ledbulbs

 

New High Quality Power Strips - http://amzn.com/B0000513O4

 

Heavy Duty GFCI's - http://amzn.com/B00279LG50

 

My question is this, of all my machines, both snack (Crane Model #145) and soda (Dixie-Narco 276E & Vendo 480 / 540) have had no problems, however with the pair of Royal Vendor 660's and my coffee machine (AP Model 211FD) these GFCI's keep on tripping, I know that it's CA law to have GFCI's installed on the cords, but when I purchased the route almost a year ago, neither of these 3 machines had any GFCI's attatched to the cords, all other machines did, now using these GFCI's I find that these previously mentioned 3 machines don't seem to accept them, they are the 20 amp versions so they should flow enough current for the hot water tank & refridgeration units...any ideas?  It's not that big of a deal, just kind of curious.

 

Also, in the empty slots of the power strips, I've been putting in these rodent deterrents that seem to be working well. 

http://www.victorpest.com/store/mouse-control/m754s

 

 

Randy

 

 

 

 

[moondog]

Hey guys, so I've been slowly upgrading my machines with different things,

 

LED Lighting - http://www.veii.com/innovations/ledbulbs

 

New High Quality Power Strips - http://amzn.com/B0000513O4

 

Heavy Duty GFCI's - http://amzn.com/B00279LG50

 

My question is this, of all my machines, both snack (Crane Model #145) and soda (Dixie-Narco 276E & Vendo 480 / 540) have had no problems, however with the pair of Royal Vendor 660's and my coffee machine (AP Model 211FD) these GFCI's keep on tripping, I know that it's CA law to have GFCI's installed on the cords, but when I purchased the route almost a year ago, neither of these 3 machines had any GFCI's attatched to the cords, all other machines did, now using these GFCI's I find that these previously mentioned 3 machines don't seem to accept them, they are the 20 amp versions so they should flow enough current for the hot water tank & refridgeration units...any ideas?  It's not that big of a deal, just kind of curious.

 

Also, in the empty slots of the power strips, I've been putting in these rodent deterrents that seem to be working well. 

http://www.victorpest.com/store/mouse-control/m754s

 

 

Randy

 

Good job with your GFCI's - 12/3 is the way to go (no voltage drop).  I'm thinking that the anti-rodent devices may be causing some electro-interference with the machines that are tripping the GFCI.  I've got a Royal 660 on a GFI very similar to yours with no problems.

[AZVendor]

I have not heard of any laws that require retrofitting of machines for GFI's on existing machines.  Federal laws allow grandfathering of existing equipment and that is where this mandate came from.  Only machines reconditioned by the factory or sold new fall under the new GFI requirements.  Are you in a public facility that tells you this stuff is needed?  I would still want to see the California law that applies. 

 

It is not recommended to put any soda or coffee machine on a power strip or surge protector as they draw too much current.  When they start, the compressors will pull up to 18 amps on startup and the heating element uses 1500+ watts at their hottest.  I see that the Tripp Lite power strip breaker is only rated at 12 amps so it's likely to trip on its own.  In addition, if you combine a GFI cord and a surge suppressor together you are greatly weakening the circuit and restricting the current flow.

 

The factory GFI's aren't all they're cracked up to be either.  I have had to cut several out of the power cords of my customer's machines so the machines will work.  The GFI's will trip for no reason or just not reset, and this even happens on snack machines. 

 

In my opinion, you are worrying about the Guberment too much.  I wouldn't invest in any unneeded equipment until I was actually cited with a violation.

[moondog]

I have not heard of any laws that require retrofitting of machines for GFI's on existing machines.  Federal laws allow grandfathering of existing equipment and that is where this mandate came from.  Only machines reconditioned by the factory or sold new fall under the new GFI requirements.  Are you in a public facility that tells you this stuff is needed?  I would still want to see the California law that applies. 

 

It is not recommended to put any soda or coffee machine on a power strip or surge protector as they draw too much current.  When they start, the compressors will pull up to 18 amps on startup and the heating element uses 1500+ watts at their hottest.  I see that the Tripp Lite power strip breaker is only rated at 12 amps so it's likely to trip on its own.  In addition, if you combine a GFI cord and a surge suppressor together you are greatly weakening the circuit and restricting the current flow.

 

The factory GFI's aren't all they're cracked up to be either.  I have had to cut several out of the power cords of my customer's machines so the machines will work.  The GFI's will trip for no reason or just not reset, and this even happens on snack machines. 

 

In my opinion, you are worrying about the Guberment too much.  I wouldn't invest in any unneeded equipment until I was actually cited with a violation.

 

As an old electrician, I hate GFI's with a passion.  That said, here in California, Fire Departments in all communities do annual checks on all commercial facilities and if they catch you without a GFI on your vending machines the building owner will be cited, who will then raise hell with their tenant (your customer) who usually will then toss your butt and your machines out the door.

 

I have the 20 amp, 12/3 GFI's on all my machines and haven't had any problems with them going on 4 years.  I buy the good ones, not those cheap power strips.  The issue with extension cords is voltage drop.  The longer the cord, the greater the drop. When the voltage is restricted, the machine will draw more amps to attain the wattage required to operate.  If you plug your soda machine into a 50' 14/3 extension cord (or a cheap power strip) you're going to have a problem.

 

As a side note:  all exterior outlets in California are required to be GFI protected so we're in the clear when operating an outdoor soda machine for example.

[AZVendor]

Moondog, are there state or municipal laws in effect in California (the most regulated state in the union) to require the use of GFCI cords on all vending machines, regardless of age, or does it vary by jurisdiction?  I appreciate your familiarity with electrical regulations.  It's too bad that vending is assumed to be a fire risk by moron pencil pushers.  I also believe that all municipalities require outdoor outlets to be GFI protected, as we do here.

[Walta]

It is not about pencil pushers it is about dead children!

 

Some num nuts put a 30 year old soda next to the pool on a 2 wire circuit and cut the ground pin off the cord and killed a 6 year old child!!!! I will look for the new paper article later.

 

So that’s how you get armies of pencil pushers.

 

Walta

[moondog]

Moondog, are there state or municipal laws in effect in California (the most regulated state in the union) to require the use of GFCI cords on all vending machines, regardless of age, or does it vary by jurisdiction?  I appreciate your familiarity with electrical regulations.  It's too bad that vending is assumed to be a fire risk by moron pencil pushers.  I also believe that all municipalities require outdoor outlets to be GFI protected, as we do here.

It's a state law AZ but it's left up to local Fire Departments to enforce so I'm sure some areas are stricter than others.  While the various municipalities can write their own electric code (modify the NEC) the fire codes are state mandated.

It is not about pencil pushers it is about dead children!

 

Some num nuts put a 30 year old soda next to the pool on a 2 wire circuit and cut the ground pin off the cord and killed a 6 year old child!!!! I will look for the new paper article later.

 

So that’s how you get armies of pencil pushers.

 

Walta

 

Electricity is a wonderful thing but if you don't know what you're doing - don't do it.  It's not something you want to half *#ss around with.

[mission vending]

Electricity is a wonderful thing but if you don't know what you're doing - don't do it.  It's not something you want to half *#ss around with.

 

Yep, learned a very painful lesson when I was much younger, still have the third degree burn scar on my hand.

[Repairman]

GFI 's are a pain. Your customer could be having power surges and the GFI is doing its job and tripping. But they are still a pain. Have you ever got a call on a sandwich machine at 2:00 in the morning 80 miles away and you have to climb over the equipment to reset a GFI because the location has electrical issues. Not fun. I am 5" 11 and weigh  250 lbs. and  I am 63 years old. Prefer not to do that if I do not need to.  So if I can not find problems with the machine I usually cut the GFI.

[Walta]

You must have big stones to in a public form that is Google searchable and archived forever.

To essentially say whenever you find it convenient it is your practice to remove legally required a life safety device.

 

GFI works by looking for detecting deferent amounts of current flowing in the white and black wires. Any current leaving on the black wire and not returning on the white wire is going someplace else. If the machine is well grounded things are pretty safe but should the ground pin on the cord get damaged or be removed now this machine is very dangerous. Touching a leaky machine with a bad ground and any other grounded object will give you a shock.

 

Repairman I do not think you can support your statement “Your customer could be having power surges and the GFI is doing its job and tripping”. Power surges do not trip GFIs any electrical connection from the hot AC wire to an earth ground will even one with 100 of thousands of ohms of resistance will.

 

I hope your actions don’t kill anyone and in your mind’s eye see face of a dead child lying in a casket before you cut the next cord.

 

 

Please think about how you would feel if that vision did come true.

 

 

Walta

[Walta]

Does anyone think I have been watching too much law and order on TV? LOL

 

Walta

[cvending]

Salta, depending on your location, GFIC may or may not be legally required. We are in Ohio a only new or commercially remanufactured machines require GFIC. However we do use many and I ampules sing here, but have experienced trouble as described in earlier posts in about onl 5% of our GFICs. Still a old safety feature.

[cvending]

Sorry, I Meant Walta