vendog Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Hi! I am new to vending and want to start off the right way in full line. There are a couple of routes that come with machines for sale in my area, so I wanted your take on them to decide which is the best deal. Unfortunately, I have already verbally committed to buying 1 location from someone with a route tomorrow (committed last week before I found this forum). This is where the *FAST* part of needing advise comes in. The vendor has a total of 9 locations that I may eventually want to buy if this first location works out and I decide I want to build up a route. I already tied up the sale of this location by putting off paying for over a week by making various excuses (really I just wanted to research vending since I have no experience), so I don't want to ruin the relationship with a seller who seems perfectly honest and reasonable by stringing him along any more. So here's the details about the location and machines I am considering buying right now. It is VERY close to my house (about 8 minutes away) and is on the way to the expressway/more heavily populated areas, so my wife and I pass it every day running errands and going to work anyway. I think this should allow me to offer unparalleled service and keep my gas expenses to almost nothing. The seller states that he is selling this location first because it is slightly out of the way compared to the other stops on the route, though ultimately he wants to sell the other locations as well because his full time business has picked up again and is taking up more of his time now that the economy is doing a little better. He states that he does not have records of what individual stops make (since this was merely a side business for him), but that he estimates this location makes $200-$250 per month gross from both machines combined. The price we agreed upon for both machines and the location is $1,200.00. It is at a car dealership, so both the employees and the public use it. Here are the machines: Dixie Narco Model DNCB 440MC/252-8 PE2296 AP Snackshop 6600 0707 I noted that the serial number on the DN ends in CO, which should tell me the year and quarter the machine was made, but is not even listed on the website. I did the math with the pattern though, and it seems the machine was probably built in 1990 (seller claims to have owned the machines/location for 5 years and does not know how old they are). Seller states that he just replaced the bill acceptor on the DN machine and it leaks a little into the coin bin from the top (machine is outside). Seller states the leak is a simple fix that he was about to do himself ("a couple dollars worth of sealant from Home Depot") and does not affect how the machine operates even if I don't bother to fix it ("you just have to fish the coins out of the water then, which sucks when it's cold out"). I saw him open both machines but he only needed to restock the soda). A couple of employees bought cans directly from him (when they saw me with him they even said to him "you better not be taking my machine away! I use it!" ). So I guess I have a few questions. 1) Given that they are obviously VERY old machines, is a price of $600 each appropriate? The seller states that he figures $500 each plus $200 for a profitable location is fair. Is that about right or are these machines about to die? I know the brands are good and they are in working order now, but how long do even the good ones last? I want to at least be able to get $400 to $500 each for them if I decide this isn't for me after a month or two so I can minimize my losses! 2) From what I have read in previous threads it seems like this is a small account that really barely if at all warrants the machines. At (let's say) 50% profit (not counting gas and my time) I am looking at $100-$125 per month net. This should give me an ROI of 12 months or less (assuming the seller is being honest, which I have absolutely no proof of at all other than his desire to eventually sell me his other locations - another reason I am only buying the most convenient one for me at first). So... am I right that this account is really only worth something to me because it is so close to my house? Especially without any proof of sales numbers, would this account be worth anything more than the cost of the machines to anyone who lives further away or where the location is out of the way at all? 3) Is the leak in the old, outdoor DN a common problem? Is it as easy to fix as he states? Is it as small of a problem as he states? 4) I have read here that stales will be a problem with owning only 1 snack machine. Perhaps this is why he leaves the gum/mints section empty? I do not have details about his other locations and I wasn't smart enough to check the dates on his products when he opened the machine for me last week. He states (estimated) the typical 60/40 split between the machines for sales and profit. Am I going to see my profits from the soda disappear through stales in the snack machine? 5) Anything else I have not thought of that you could suggest as a potential problem or upside would also be most useful. Thanks, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vendog Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 Oh, one more thing: the city sticker for the DN was last renewed in 2009, before the car dealership changed owners and changed their name. I checked into it and renewal is only $11 per year. The city requires a business name for registration and in 2009 (during the transfer) the location had no business name for a few months (simply "out of business"), which might explain the lapse that year. I assume the seller took advantage of the situation and simply never renewed it. As a new owner, can the city come after me for previous years and add fines/fees when they eventually figure out what happened? Would I be better off paying for renewal upon purchase, just ignoring it as the seller is doing, or steering clear because of possible future legal issues? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treadmill Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Hi! I am new to vending and want to start off the right way in full line. There are a couple of routes that come with machines for sale in my area, so I wanted your take on them to decide which is the best deal. Unfortunately, I have already verbally committed to buying 1 location from someone with a route tomorrow (committed last week before I found this forum). This is where the *FAST* part of needing advise comes in. The vendor has a total of 9 locations that I may eventually want to buy if this first location works out and I decide I want to build up a route. I already tied up the sale of this location by putting off paying for over a week by making various excuses (really I just wanted to research vending since I have no experience), so I don't want to ruin the relationship with a seller who seems perfectly honest and reasonable by stringing him along any more. So here's the details about the location and machines I am considering buying right now. It is VERY close to my house (about 8 minutes away) and is on the way to the expressway/more heavily populated areas, so my wife and I pass it every day running errands and going to work anyway. I think this should allow me to offer unparalleled service and keep my gas expenses to almost nothing. The seller states that he is selling this location first because it is slightly out of the way compared to the other stops on the route, though ultimately he wants to sell the other locations as well because his full time business has picked up again and is taking up more of his time now that the economy is doing a little better. He states that he does not have records of what individual stops make (since this was merely a side business for him), but that he estimates this location makes $200-$250 per month gross from both machines combined. The price we agreed upon for both machines and the location is $1,200.00. It is at a car dealership, so both the employees and the public use it. Here are the machines: Dixie Narco Model DNCB 440MC/252-8 PE2296 AP Snackshop 6600 0707 I noted that the serial number on the DN ends in CO, which should tell me the year and quarter the machine was made, but is not even listed on the website. I did the math with the pattern though, and it seems the machine was probably built in 1990 (seller claims to have owned the machines/location for 5 years and does not know how old they are). Seller states that he just replaced the bill acceptor on the DN machine and it leaks a little into the coin bin from the top (machine is outside). Seller states the leak is a simple fix that he was about to do himself ("a couple dollars worth of sealant from Home Depot") and does not affect how the machine operates even if I don't bother to fix it ("you just have to fish the coins out of the water then, which sucks when it's cold out"). I saw him open both machines but he only needed to restock the soda). A couple of employees bought cans directly from him (when they saw me with him they even said to him "you better not be taking my machine away! I use it!" ). So I guess I have a few questions. 1) Given that they are obviously VERY old machines, is a price of $600 each appropriate? The seller states that he figures $500 each plus $200 for a profitable location is fair. Is that about right or are these machines about to die? I know the brands are good and they are in working order now, but how long do even the good ones last? I want to at least be able to get $400 to $500 each for them if I decide this isn't for me after a month or two so I can minimize my losses! 2) From what I have read in previous threads it seems like this is a small account that really barely if at all warrants the machines. At (let's say) 50% profit (not counting gas and my time) I am looking at $100-$125 per month net. This should give me an ROI of 12 months or less (assuming the seller is being honest, which I have absolutely no proof of at all other than his desire to eventually sell me his other locations - another reason I am only buying the most convenient one for me at first). So... am I right that this account is really only worth something to me because it is so close to my house? Especially without any proof of sales numbers, would this account be worth anything more than the cost of the machines to anyone who lives further away or where the location is out of the way at all? 3) Is the leak in the old, outdoor DN a common problem? Is it as easy to fix as he states? Is it as small of a problem as he states? 4) I have read here that stales will be a problem with owning only 1 snack machine. Perhaps this is why he leaves the gum/mints section empty? I do not have details about his other locations and I wasn't smart enough to check the dates on his products when he opened the machine for me last week. He states (estimated) the typical 60/40 split between the machines for sales and profit. Am I going to see my profits from the soda disappear through stales in the snack machine? 5) Anything else I have not thought of that you could suggest as a potential problem or upside would also be most useful. Thanks, John I'm not in this type of vending but the first question that came to my mind was "Is this machine equipped to be outside and withstand the elements. I do know there are soda machines that are only for inside sales and ones that are made for outside sales. This would be one question I would ask if it hasn't already been asked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vendors Tech Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 The machines are older, but the AP is a solid machine. The Dixie 440 was generally a single price, but the MC indicates that it is multi-price. As far as price goes, its an "OK" deal. I would ask for more substantial proof about the income of the location. If he says $250 max from 2 machines a month, then that averages to about $31 per machine a week. That is not very good compared to what a "good" location would do, but considering its location and the type of machines, it might be a good start. The machines are easy to program, service, and fix. The location is near you, you will probably have time to mess around with the machines and learn how they work.... Just for comparison, a "good" account that most vendors would target is one that would do $75-$100 a week per machine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryChris Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Alright... so.... let's start off with the most basic of answers (or opinions, but I like to assume that my opinions are facts because I believe that I am smarter than everyone else, even if that's not true). Firstly, can you get 400-500 for each of those machines? I would say probably. It may take some time to sell them but I don't think it would be impossible by any means to get $800-$1000 back from your $1,200 investment. So I think it's safe to say that it's not a terrible deal at all. Secondly, will the location do $200-$250/month? Well it's hard to say... it really depends on EXACTLY where the machines are located in relation to the traffic. Car dealerships look awesome at first because there are people all over the place... but then you find out that customers may be getting complimentary beverages and snacks and never spend a penny on a vending machine. I know from past experiences that the more white-collar the brand (ie. lexus, licoln, bmw, mercedes, etc...), the OLDER the people are and the LESS they buy. The more blue-collar the brand (toyota, honda, ford, GM, etc...), the MORE they buy. This does not apply to service technicians or general employees as they all work the same no matter what the brand is... that theory only applies to the customers who visit the dealerships.... So... Let's assume the maximum of $250/month. $250/month divided by 4.33 weeks (because there are approx. 4 full weeks and 1/3 of a week in every month!) to get a stated maximum of $58/week, round up to $60. So the question is... can a dealership do $60/week? Yes it can, but I used to service a higher-end brand of cars that did $25/week and dealt with a lower-end brand dealership that did something like $75/week(and used to do more before the economy started to tank in 2007'ish). Let's assume the worst... the account does $25/week for a grand total of $1300'ish each year.... depending on the prices, I would say approx 45% of your sales were profit for $585/year and it would take you almost 2 years to pay for itself. I don't think this is a bad deal really as you could make enough money in one year and decide "vending is not for me" and sell the machines cheaper than you wanted and get out without any real loss at all. My point is that this deal does not seem very risky to me but I don't think you are going to get rich very soon either . About the equipment, the equipment seems fine and yeah it might be 15-20 years old but you can probably get parts for those things all day and eventually make way more money than they are worth at this point. I don't see anything wrong with starting out with those 2 machines. Here is the only problem though... IF the account does do that maximum of $60/week, my "split" has always been closer to 65/35 or about 2/3 of my sales were soda and 1/3 were snacks. Based off of my formula, you would be lucky to sell $20/week in snacks. To put that in perspective.... if you had 2 rows of chips (50 cents each, 4 selections each), 2 rows of candy (75 cents each), 1 row of cookies(75 cents each), and 1 row of pastries(1.00 each), and you sold ONE item out of EACH selection, you would get a grand total of $23. That means... hypothetically speaking... if one of each item was sold every week (rather than having faster sellers and slower sellers), it would probably take you 5-8 weeks to go through a few variety packs of chips, candy, and pastries... but a lot of those variety packs only last for 4-6 weeks. Basically what I am saying is that... hypothetically you COULD get away with this account without too many stales but that is assuming that people buy one of everything every week minimizing stales... the reality is that some things will sell better than others. I had this problem when I started out and I desperately tried to find a few decent accounts where I could get rid of my older products quickly. My stales problem has never gotten much better in terms of quantity... but my revenue has gone up significantly while the quantity of stales has not really changed (good thing). My final words here, this seller actually sounds legit to me in all honesty. I don't know about the whole "My route has picked up and I'm too busy for these" thing but yeah he might be annoyed at the slower stales and want to trim the fat in his route in order to shorten his work time while barely losing any profits. I actually know a local vendor that periodically calls me and asks if I have any small equipment around to place into some of his slower accounts because it costs him too much *resources* (wages, fuel, time wasted that could be spent at a better location) on those slower accounts. I would say... for starting out, it sounds like a pretty decent idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mission vending Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Like previously stated, its not the best deal but its not the worst either. If you stay in the business for any length of time you will need to build up to 8-10 snack machines at this volume level fairly quickly because out of dates will become a significant issue for you if you don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vendog Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 Clarifications: treadmill: Only the soda machine is outside, and it is meant to withstand the elements (minus the current leak of course, which *supposedly* is an easy fix). I researched the machine types and what they can do but like you I have no experience with them, so I guess we'll see how it goes. H4UV: That's pretty much what I was thinking. I already tried asking for proof of the income and he flat out said he doesn't have any because he doesn't keep track of them individually. I kind of get the impression he may not even be filing taxes for his profits on the few locations he has (vending as part time side business), so I doubt he even has any records of profits for all of his locations as a whole, let alone records that I could use as actual proof of sales. As for the machines: I don't even know how to adjust the prices, though the seller did say he had to raise them due to rising costs a couple of years ago. The soda is all set at 75 cents per can now and I'm not sure if it I can set separate prices for different items. I do know that it has generic bottles of water at the same price as the soda, so... well, really, I have no idea if that means anything other than that it can fit bottles too. I guess I will have lots of time to learn if/when I make the purchase tomorrow! AngryChris: Thank you so much!!! It's good to hear that the machines are worth what I thought they were worth. I should clarify that the car dealership is a small used car dealership (probably about 100 cars on the lot at any given time). They don't seem to push one brand over another, but they advertise heavily to Hispanics ("All salespeople speak Spanish!") and I don't think they ever have anything worth over $15,000 on the lot (which makes me think it may be mostly blue collar customers, but I may be wrong). They offer complimentary coffee to customers, but that's it. Soda, snacks, and yes, even water are from the machines only. So as far as the drinks go this thing looks like it will make me a little money and give me an idea of full line vending is like without risking much. That said, yeah, that's what I was afraid of with the stales. I think I just needed to hear someone confirm it. It may help a little that it doesn't currently have pastries, but still... single serving chips and candy is an expensive way to buy it if I get stuck eating it myself! To clarify about the seller: he is a realtor (again supposedly - it's not like I know him personally but why lie about that?), not a full time vendor. Apparently housing sales have picked up in our area so he's trying to get out of vending completely (but he's not desperate to do so in a huge hurry to the point where he'll lose his investments). As for the profits: let me get this straight... it could be as low as $25 GROSS per week?!? Not net? The way the seller tells it I was expecting at least $50 gross and (my estimate based on gross) roughly $25 net. By your math that would be $22.50 per week, which would still be fine by me. But a 2 year ROI?!? Seems high to me, but what do I know, I'm new. I guess it's only $1,200, and given the value of the machines I could always get out in less than a year if I really wanted to without a loss. Again -- THANK YOU!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vendors Tech Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Remember, if you need help pricing or programming the machines, just post your questions on here, we'll help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poplady1 Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Clarifications: treadmill: Only the soda machine is outside, and it is meant to withstand the elements (minus the current leak of course, which *supposedly* is an easy fix). I researched the machine types and what they can do but like you I have no experience with them, so I guess we'll see how it goes. H4UV: That's pretty much what I was thinking. I already tried asking for proof of the income and he flat out said he doesn't have any because he doesn't keep track of them individually. I kind of get the impression he may not even be filing taxes for his profits on the few locations he has (vending as part time side business), so I doubt he even has any records of profits for all of his locations as a whole, let alone records that I could use as actual proof of sales. As for the machines: I don't even know how to adjust the prices, though the seller did say he had to raise them due to rising costs a couple of years ago. The soda is all set at 75 cents per can now and I'm not sure if it I can set separate prices for different items. I do know that it has generic bottles of water at the same price as the soda, so... well, really, I have no idea if that means anything other than that it can fit bottles too. I guess I will have lots of time to learn if/when I make the purchase tomorrow! AngryChris: Thank you so much!!! It's good to hear that the machines are worth what I thought they were worth. I should clarify that the car dealership is a small used car dealership (probably about 100 cars on the lot at any given time). They don't seem to push one brand over another, but they advertise heavily to Hispanics ("All salespeople speak Spanish!") and I don't think they ever have anything worth over $15,000 on the lot (which makes me think it may be mostly blue collar customers, but I may be wrong). They offer complimentary coffee to customers, but that's it. Soda, snacks, and yes, even water are from the machines only. So as far as the drinks go this thing looks like it will make me a little money and give me an idea of full line vending is like without risking much. That said, yeah, that's what I was afraid of with the stales. I think I just needed to hear someone confirm it. It may help a little that it doesn't currently have pastries, but still... single serving chips and candy is an expensive way to buy it if I get stuck eating it myself! To clarify about the seller: he is a realtor (again supposedly - it's not like I know him personally but why lie about that?), not a full time vendor. Apparently housing sales have picked up in our area so he's trying to get out of vending completely (but he's not desperate to do so in a huge hurry to the point where he'll lose his investments). As for the profits: let me get this straight... it could be as low as $25 GROSS per week?!? Not net? The way the seller tells it I was expecting at least $50 gross and (my estimate based on gross) roughly $25 net. By your math that would be $22.50 per week, which would still be fine by me. But a 2 year ROI?!? Seems high to me, but what do I know, I'm new. I guess it's only $1,200, and given the value of the machines I could always get out in less than a year if I really wanted to without a loss. Again -- THANK YOU!!! I have seen this type of account many many times mostly advertised in the for sale section. I can think of many ways you could spend that money. If your drink machine is leaking from the top corner, you have a problem. Be sure to check with Bill. So he isn't filling the gum and mint drawers either, do they work? I think you are getting ready to buy some really beat down equipment. The only machine that is making some money seems to be the leaking drink machine. I would recommend taking that money, calling Eddie B. and having him find you a drink location close to your home. Then go buy yourself a machine worth $800. Pay someone 100 to have it delivered. One of the probable reasons this location is not making much money is the machines aren't working properly. My two cents... Poplady1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryChris Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 AngryChris: Thank you so much!!! It's good to hear that the machines are worth what I thought they were worth. I should clarify that the car dealership is a small used car dealership (probably about 100 cars on the lot at any given time). They don't seem to push one brand over another, but they advertise heavily to Hispanics ("All salespeople speak Spanish!") and I don't think they ever have anything worth over $15,000 on the lot (which makes me think it may be mostly blue collar customers, but I may be wrong). They offer complimentary coffee to customers, but that's it. Soda, snacks, and yes, even water are from the machines only. So as far as the drinks go this thing looks like it will make me a little money and give me an idea of full line vending is like without risking much. That said, yeah, that's what I was afraid of with the stales. I think I just needed to hear someone confirm it. It may help a little that it doesn't currently have pastries, but still... single serving chips and candy is an expensive way to buy it if I get stuck eating it myself! To clarify about the seller: he is a realtor (again supposedly - it's not like I know him personally but why lie about that?), not a full time vendor. Apparently housing sales have picked up in our area so he's trying to get out of vending completely (but he's not desperate to do so in a huge hurry to the point where he'll lose his investments). As for the profits: let me get this straight... it could be as low as $25 GROSS per week?!? Not net? The way the seller tells it I was expecting at least $50 gross and (my estimate based on gross) roughly $25 net. By your math that would be $22.50 per week, which would still be fine by me. But a 2 year ROI?!? Seems high to me, but what do I know, I'm new. I guess it's only $1,200, and given the value of the machines I could always get out in less than a year if I really wanted to without a loss. Again -- THANK YOU!!! Basically.. what I was trying to say was that *IF* the account ONLY did $25/week GROSS (which is not unrealistic for a slow dealership, but not necessarily true) then yes it would amount to approx $11.50/week NET or almost $600 in a year NET.... **IF** it only did $25/week GROSS. I only say that because... worst case scenario... he's completely exaggerating his sales or just lying to sell it to you.... and if that were to happen, i'm just letting you know that it could take 2 years to completely make your investment back. Trust me, 2 years is WAY better than some people who have invested in some biz-op scam and will take 7 years for a true ROI. If it is full of hispanic people, there is potentially some good sales there if you put the right stuff in it.... like chili-cheese fritos, hot cheetos, spicy pork rinds, etc.... pretty much anything spicy lol. I believe many of them like things like big texas too. You could always just ask the people that work there if they are hispanic and they would tell you what sounds good... but just because it sounds good doesn't mean they are going to buy it. I agree with pop lady, there are better ways to spend your money... but I kind of like the idea of people starting out by straight out buying a soda and snack machine because you really don't get into full-line and get the real hang of it until you have soda AND snack machines... Btw, the 65/35 split in revenue... cans are way more profitable than 20oz bottles.... and if we were to split your problems with the machines, it would be 35/65 (35% soda, 65% snacks). You can definitely make money with snack machines but they can give you all kinds of headaches if you don't know how to fix simple things... Sorry, there's just way too much info to give you here at once lol, i'll just let you keep asking questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogcow Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I would pass. I bought a route similar to this. Older equipment, lower producing locations. On the one hand I learned a lot about the mechanics of the equipment. Moving it, fixing it, service and programming. On the other hand I did not learn much about the more important side of vending...sales. I relied heavily on advice from RJT and this forum and after a lot of practice i have become sort of OK at it. If you're not from a sales background it is a very hard business IMO the first thing to learn is the sales aspect. You can buy a used drink or snack machine from craigs list put it in your garage and mess with it. Take it apart refurb it but the whole time hit the bricks and try to find it a home. This way you arent being buried alive under stales. I started with 2 snack locations doing about 30-40/wk and the stales were bleeding me slowly. I had to get 10 or 15 honor boxes out before I started getting a good product flow where I was actually making some money. Remember you are buying stuff in bulk , you need 20+ selections. A lot of stuff is short dated (pastry) other stuff lasts a month or two (chips) but you have to buy a giant box of them...they just wont move that fast with those #s u quoted. If I could do it again that is what I would have done, bought the equipment, figured out how it worked and tried to place it on location. How you are doing it is going to cost you money and you will either have to move it/refurb it anyway or just sell it off to someone else. It sounds like you have your mind made up yeah its not a bad deal but not really a good one either. I would stay away and approach it from a different angle. As for poplady's advice. I agree with that except the idea of calling a locator. It is not hard to locate a single price drink machine. You wont get a great account but you can get an account and it will get you familiar with how to cold call accounts. I also agree use a professional mover, make sure they are experienced moving vending machines and are insured. Its possible to do it yourself but my mover can get the machines in places that looks impossible he is a real magician with a furniture dolly. Also its important to have a plan. Do you want a career change? Do you want to be a part-timer...this will dictate how you approach the business. What kind of accounts you target. If you have a day job and ur accounts are M-F 9-5 how are you gonna service them, what about repairs? etc... If you want to make some money part time with low hassle you can build up a route of low or medium size can drink accounts. the machines are cheap they are easy to fix and the product lasts a long time. Thats my 25 cents ( inflation is a b***h LOL ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technivend Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I was gonna leave this to the operators but I need to clarify your equipment info. The MC designation on your 440 means that it is or was a Pepsi machine not that it is multiprice. The probably is a single price as I don't think they ever made it in multi. Also the 440 was a mongrel machine at 79 inches instead of the industry standard 72 inches. That makes this machine less desirable and a hard sell so they are less expensive. The 6600 while a workhorse is not anything special. By today's standards it is almost like comparing a trusty workhorse typewriter to a computer. Workhorse yes, good equipment not anymore. So in essence the equipment has little if any value on its own. However (and this is where the others know better) based on the revenue generated and you buying a income stream it looks to be a ok, to not so good but not so bad deal. What I would be concerned with is the following..do you have a contract or guaranty? Will the existing owner introduce you to the location contacts? And are you ready to buy new machines for this location if the contact says "we want new machines", "new owner? I've been meaning to ask you for new machines" , "another vendors just came in and offered me better pricing and newer machines" Me , I would stay away..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryChris Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I'm indifferent to the idea. I think everyone would like to start off with great accounts with great income but if you are afraid of sales work then I would think it's a decent idea to get started as everything is ready to go.... I thought he implied that he has already agreed to buy it... but regardless, I just don't think it's a BAD thing, just not that good either. Just don't start off with Antares machines! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANDERSONVENDING Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 The Dixie 440 is a single price machine made in the 80's.I have one that I bought for my first full size machine that I am still using.The only problem I've ever had was with the coin mech and the bill validator.The leak you talk about is probably where the coin return is.If you seal that then it will fill with water,I'd recommend drilling a hole in the coin box to allow the water to drain out. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vendog Posted January 18, 2012 Author Share Posted January 18, 2012 I did agree to buy it verbally, but there is no written contract and I haven't put down a deposit. So all I would lose is if I back out is the good faith of the seller and (presumably) any future opportunity to buy any of his other locations/equipment. "Luckily" it is snowing terribly right now and my car won't start so I have another night to think about it. I think tomorrow morning I'll go to the location, ask for the person who makes the decisions about the vending machines, and formally introduce myself. The seller did tell someone that I figured was one of the car salesmen that I might be working with them when I went to look at the machines last week (remember the guy that said "don't take my machines!" and bought a couple of pops directly). For all I know that person could actually be the owner. Given that it is a low volume account I can't imagine anyone bothering to put newer equipment in or thinking it's worth cutting the margins, but I don't actually know for a fact that that's the case. I guess I'll just do my own investigation in the morning when the weather clears. As for the machines being mongrel and outdated respectively, that is a shame but very good information to have. Just for my own reference, what do the newer machines do that the older ones don't do? Other than having the ability to set multiple prices on the DN and both having a higher capacity (and maybe taking less electricity to run?) I can't imagine what other features could be added. I almost feel like you're trying to explain a built in dashboard navigation system on a used car to me and the year is 1990 If, say, I was to buy a 5 or 6 year old DN for $800 or so as pop lady suggests then what would I get other than a newer machine with newer parts? What are the best models generally available used for under $1,000 each, and why are they better than the 20 year old ones that are only worth (lets say) $300 or so? The machines are functioning perfectly as far as I can tell. I don't even know what the seller is talking about with the leak on the pop machine because there was no water in the coin catch when I looked and it all looks sealed to me. Supposedly it leaks directly from the top, not the corner (though I have no idea if that makes a difference), and the water only runs down into the coin catch. I will ask how they are working tomorrow when I go to the location without the seller around to possibly influence things. My background is in customer service, logistics, and sales. I do need to mention though that I hate doing sales work, and the claims I have read that "the product sells itself because people have generally already made the choice of what to buy when they go to a soda machine" and "the soda companies have already done all the advertising for you, and you don't even have to deal with the customers in person" were a lot of what attracted me to vending in the first place. I am currently on unemployment after hopping between a few sales jobs in the automotive wholesale and logistics industries over the last year and I am now ultimately looking for a career change of some sort. All of the jobs I had last year required massive amounts of business to business cold calling. These jobs taught me two things -1- that I am far to nice/honest of a person and customer service oriented to make any real attempt at convincing anyone that buying an overpriced and inferior product (or even one that just doesn't fit their business model) will help their bottom line -2- that I never want to do cold call sales again if I can avoid it because it requires either lying about the value of the product/service (scamming) or telling the truth about a good product/service that actually would be a good fit for the customer (which tends to get lumped in with the scams for the understandably skeptical buyers that you are cold calling anyway). So, basically, sales is a nightmare for me. I would imagine that selling a no commitment and free for the customer product like vending machines is a lot easier than selling a contract for 100K+ of goods or services but I'm sure there are still objections to overcome and there would still be a lot of "nos". If I do buy this location tomorrow after getting all the right answers from the decision maker at the dealership it will simply be to get my feet wet on the service aspect of it, to learn how the machines work, because it is easy/convenient/already there, etc. If it turns out to be a failed experiment and I only lose a couple of hundred dollars I won't be to upset (but my I'm sure wife would put my head on a pike if I lost the whole $1,200 ) If it seems to be working but I'm getting killed by stales I'll probably just have Eddie find me my first few other locations so I don't pull my hair out dealing with sales again right off the bat. That is, of course, assuming I don't get a nasty surprise answer from the contact at the car dealership tomorrow morning (which would make me back out of this particular deal entirely). Does this seem like a reasonable course of action to everyone? Any answers to any of my questions and any other thoughts are most appreciated! 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AngryChris Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Alright, firstly, you seem pretty level headed in my opinion so I think this is pretty easy. I might be alone here... but I do place a value on investing into a vending location that is truly a turn-key investment. However, with that said, I must say that the sales work you have to do here does not have to be anything like what you are talking about with your previous jobs. If you want to avoid lying to customers and dealing with the reactions of them feeling like it's some sort of a scam... I really doubt it would happen. People may be happy with their current vendors or they may get vibes that your service won't be as good as their current service or be wary of prices and what not... but they won't be thinking "Oh he's probably going to lie to us and steal our money!!!" so don't get that in your head lol... if you can deal with rejection, the sales aren't that bad. The trick is to have GOOD equipment so you can honestly say you have GOOD equipment and honestly provide a GOOD service just like you would tell them you would. Now if you plan on doing a crappy service... well you can be honest about that upfront and not get the account or be a liar and lose the account later, but service is a MAJOR role in vending. Moving on. What makes newer machines better than older machines? This answer is not as simple as "Newer machines have better paint jobs" or anything like that but in reality, newer machines are MUCH easier to get parts for. 1) Your vending machines will break down eventually and it's better to have a common machine with common parts that are readily available (new parts especially). 2) To my knowledge, virtually every new machine is MDB capable... why is this significant? MDB (Multi-Drop Bus) technology allows you to use MDB equipment inside of the machine... such as an MDB coin mech (which can be interchanged with just about any other MDB coin mech) or an MDB Validator or an MDB Credit Card Reader (which generally is part of a validator). MDB simply allows you to make pretty much any machine do anything that any other machine can do. You can put an LCD screen in various MDB machines for example. Federal regulation (assuming it passed) requires vending machine operators with something like.. more than 12 machines.. to post nutritional information of all of the products inside of the machines... this is practically not realistic to do but you can get an LCD screen to do this for you. You can also make an MDB machine with a CC Reader send you information wirelessly so that you know what sales are doing.... in a nutshell, MDB allows you to upgrade a given machine with the latest technology for that machine but many of the parts are interchangeable so you don't have to have 5 or 6 spare coin mechs and validators lying around "just in case" a machine breaks down as the older machines have equipment that is generally not interchangeable with just about anything else except similar models. 3) Newer equipment is more appealing to customers. This may seem like an obvious point here but the truth is that a potentially high-volume customer may be easily swayed by offering brand-new equipment if their current vendor's equipment keeps breaking down. You could say "Hey, if you get me in here, I'll write up a contract that will guarantee that I provide nothing but brand-new equipment with MDB technology to allow me to upgrade this machine with various upgrades should you guys want it or need it." Trust me.. the customer will be lost.. and that's where you sell the MDB as it is a convenience to you AND them. 4) Newer equipment is generally all multi-price capable. Why is this important? Simple... if you buy a single-price can machine (most single-price machines to my knowledge accept 12oz. cans or up to 16.9oz bottles but not the standard 20oz bottles) and you place it into an account and the customer says "Hey, we want water" or "Can we get bottles instead?" then you will need to buy a bottle machine capable of this and almost definitely one that is multi-price capable. Also, with my business for example, I sell water a little cheaper than my regular sodas so I WANT multi-price. Single-price literally allows you to have ONE SINGLE PRICE throughout the machine. You can make EVERYTHING the price that you choose but if you want to change the price, you have to change the SINGLE price of the ENTIRE MACHINE! With multi-price, you just change the selection(s) that need to be changed. To sum it up... newer vending equipment is like a computer compared to a typewriter (whoever mentioned that, great analogy, technivend I think). They can both perform the basic actions of typing.. but once you need some other types of requirements out of them, the typewriter simply is unable to be upgraded to perform the task while the computer can be upgraded fully to the next latest and greatest thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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