Pyrodude Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 No. NO NO NO. The heads became your property, but neither you nor the previous owner had any right to the location. The issue of abandoned machines is a delicate matter because it involves somebody's property (generally) sitting on somebody else's property. I think that Rick hit on the fundamental issue. The machine is the property of the vendor while the location/business owner is the owner of the real estate the machine occupies. If the vendor quits taking care of his machine and "abandons" it, then I feel the location owner has every right to move the machine somewhere else. (I guess this is the delicate issue part) The location owner doesnt have any ownership of the machine and therefore no right to transfer ownership of the machine but he is under no obligation to continue to provide space for a "abandoned" machine. I dont use contracts but feel that the implied agreement between me and the location owner is that I will provide a clean machine in good working order and keep it stocked and maintained while the business owner provides a safe (thats probably a relative term) location for me to keep the machine. If I did have contracts it would state something to the effect that "in exchange for use of this businesses 3 sq. ft. of space, I agree to put in this machine and keep it stocked and in good working order." Under either scenario, I as the vendor have breeched the agreement by "abandoning" the machine and not keeping it in good order. As a result, the location owner has no obligation to keep giving me a location. I wouldnt ever take someone else's machine, but at the location owners direction I would definitely put someone else's abandoned machine in the locations broom closet and stick my machine in its place. Hope that doesnt qualify me for dogcows bad juju.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fasteddie Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 Depending on the state laws the property owner could place a lien on the abandoned machine for storage of the machine and either sell/take ownership of said machine to pay the lien. I know that's how it is here for property left in a rental just not sure if it would apply in this situation unless there is a contract with the property owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mission vending Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 No. NO NO NO. The heads became your property, but neither you nor the previous owner had any right to the location. The issue of abandoned machines is a delicate matter because it involves somebody's property (generally) sitting on somebody else's property. I think that taking the machine and placing it in storage (while leaving your contact info. with the business owner and/or genuinely making an attempt to find the rightful owner) is a fair compromise in situations like this. And I don't think it makes me a lowdown dirty thief for thinking that way. We all have our opinions which are based on our own life experiences. To me "taking" the location by placing your equipment is not the issue. The location owner wants a service, isn't getting it and you are able to provide. For me crossing the line is removing the machine from the property to store it or otherwise dispose of it. As I said in a similar thread moondog started in the full line section I won't remove a machine from a location unless I've been hired by the machine owner to do so. If the location owner wants to do it, its his place he can do what he wants to do in his place of business, I just won't be a part of it. I won't even call or refer someone to him to get it done. If he wants it out I won't help, if I don't get a location because of it then I probably didn't want it anyway. That's where I stand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moondog Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 I think that Rick hit on the fundamental issue. The machine is the property of the vendor while the location/business owner is the owner of the real estate the machine occupies. If the vendor quits taking care of his machine and "abandons" it, then I feel the location owner has every right to move the machine somewhere else. (I guess this is the delicate issue part) The location owner doesnt have any ownership of the machine and therefore no right to transfer ownership of the machine but he is under no obligation to continue to provide space for a "abandoned" machine. I dont use contracts but feel that the implied agreement between me and the location owner is that I will provide a clean machine in good working order and keep it stocked and maintained while the business owner provides a safe (thats probably a relative term) location for me to keep the machine. If I did have contracts it would state something to the effect that "in exchange for use of this businesses 3 sq. ft. of space, I agree to put in this machine and keep it stocked and in good working order." Under either scenario, I as the vendor have breeched the agreement by "abandoning" the machine and not keeping it in good order. As a result, the location owner has no obligation to keep giving me a location. I wouldnt ever take someone else's machine, but at the location owners direction I would definitely put someone else's abandoned machine in the locations broom closet and stick my machine in its place. Hope that doesnt qualify me for dogcows bad juju.... No Pyrodude, We were discussing this issue over on the Full Line forum. The bad karma was in respect to taking someone's machine off site, with the location owner's permission, for the sole purpose of keeping it. I think we decided that the best thing to do is move the abandoned machine to another location on the property (back room etc.) When the location owner insists that we remove the machine from the property is when it gets sticky. He's got every right to expect it gone, but we have no right to take it. Keep in mind that a full size soda machine is a much different animal than gumball machine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 We all have our opinions which are based on our own life experiences. To me "taking" the location by placing your equipment is not the issue. The location owner wants a service, isn't getting it and you are able to provide. For me crossing the line is removing the machine from the property to store it or otherwise dispose of it. As I said in a similar thread moondog started in the full line section I won't remove a machine from a location unless I've been hired by the machine owner to do so. If the location owner wants to do it, its his place he can do what he wants to do in his place of business, I just won't be a part of it. I won't even call or refer someone to him to get it done. If he wants it out I won't help, if I don't get a location because of it then I probably didn't want it anyway. That's where I stand. I don't have an issue with where you stand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musser Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 Rick you are correct the locations I mentioned do not "belong" to me thank you for pointing out my error. I guess in my haste to make a point I didn't think through what I wrote and made a poor choice. Thats what we have isn't it, choices. When we wake in the morning we all start our day by making choices. Maybe if you are in bulk vending (depending on your level) you might choose to learn something about your new machine, or maybe learn how to locate better, choose to learn about bookkeeping or taxes, bigger operators may choose to learn how to hire better people and how to get the best those people have to offer. There is so much to learn. Or maybe you choose to figure out how to rationalize taking something that will never belong to you and feel good about it. Life is about choices. A persons choices tell the rest of us who they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mission vending Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 Life is about choices. A persons choices tell the rest of us who they are. A most excellent summation!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 You are so condescending. Yes, I wake up in the morning just dying to get my hands on abandoned machines. So that I can...NOT gain a thing out of it. I'm done with this conversation now. And I don't think you misspoke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will.vend Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 I understand the point being made that you take the machine with all the right intentions of holding onto the machine until the owner either shows up or doesnt show up to claim it. What I dont understand is who decides its been long enough. I am not in the "other vendors" equipment storage business. If there are machines in my shop then I process them to be put out on location. Im gonna be faced one day with needing a machine and over in the corner sits that machine thats in eternal limbo. Well guess what I will do just like everyone else and rationalize that its been long enough. I choose to not put myself in that situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musser Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 You are so condescending. Yes, I wake up in the morning just dying to get my hands on abandoned machines. So that I can...NOT gain a thing out of it. I'm done with this conversation now. And I don't think you misspoke. Rick I apologise to you. I did not mean to point at you. I did hijack your post to make a point. Evidently not very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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