New to vending, have a location, need to get 2 machines

[Gizmo Vending]

You will need a rod for every narrow column that you are vending cans from and possibly water if it isn’t 20 oz.  You will also need the right shims for each column.  The supplier is correct, you have can and bottle shims in there.  The shims will be the metal object on the right side of the column wall by the rotors.  You can remove these but will need to turn the rotor at an angle that allows you to have access to pull and place these shims.  One way is to unplug the barrel plug and press the brake on the motor and turn the rotor by hand but that is hard to do.  Another way is to test vend a column and unplug the barrel plug once the rotor turns about 90 degrees and creates a gap between it and the column wall.  You can find the barrel plug at the bottom left of the machine, this will cut power from the door and motor and allows you to move the rotors.  To vend a column correctly you will need to have the correct shim, Rod for cans, cam set correctly and rear spacer set right.  You can do this yourself, no need to call a professional. 
On the coin mech try pushing the button for quarters and see if it will dispense any.  Press once and press multiple times as well as holding it down to see what the coin mech does.  For this validator it won’t have switches.  Not sure why it worked a few times and other times not.  If you have enough coins and product in the columns it should work. 
 

 

 

 

[PapayaVending]

Thanks for all of your advice Gizmo, but I have decided to call someone in who can help me set this up properly. With the shim/rod issue, coin mech issue, and Nayax issue; I am in over my head. It'll cost me a couple hundred bucks, but I'm going to call it a learning experience. I'll watch the tech work and ask a lot of questions for the next machine. The location is eager to get the machine working and there is a lot of traffic/interest in the soda machine, so I want to get this up and running ASAP. I have the tech setup for next Tuesday, so I'll provide an update after.

[Vendo Mike]

6 hours ago, PapayaVending said:

I am in over my head. It'll cost me a couple hundred bucks, but I'm going to call it a learning experience. I'll watch the tech work and ask a lot of questions for the next machine

This is probably the best logic I've read from a newbie on this forum.  Kuddos to you sir.  It takes a strong mind to know when to say when and I applaud you for that.  Knowing your limits and willingness to learn are 90% of the battle.  I've had to spend many hours repairing someone's handy work before ever getting to troubleshoot and repair the problem they had in the first place.  

Build a relationship with the tech and pay attention to what they're doing.  Troubleshooting is nothing more than understanding what a machine is trying to do and being able to logically narrow down the likely culprits until the solution is found. 

[PapayaVending]

Well, the tech came today. He replaced the shims that needed replacing and did a bunch of test vends. Everything seems to be working okay during the test vends now. In his opinion, the coin mech and bill acceptor are both toast. The coin mech wasn't accepting any change today (which it did before). He tried a couple things and assured me the mech is dead. The bill acceptor would accept a bill once every blue moon. He tried cleaning it for me, but he suggested replacing it too. Other than 2 those payment issues, he said the machine looks like it's in good shape. His opinion was to buy them both brand new, not refurbished. Thoughts on buying new or refurbished coin mech and bill acceptor? And from where?

As far as the Nayax, it wasn't getting signal. He tried wiring up a high gain antenna to it, and it still wasn't getting service. He told me this is a Nayax problem and that I will need to call them to deal with it. But if a high gain antenna isn't working, not sure what else they could do for me?

I'm going to reach out to the supplier I bought it from first, but I have a feeling he isn't going to like this. I'd be surprised if he stands by the machine he sold me. I'm very frustrated.

[Gizmo Vending]

See if the supplier will exchange your coin mech and validator for refurbished parts. 
To this day I have never bought a new coin mech or validator, I have always bought refurbed.  Only card readers have I bought new.  If you disconnected any of these components with power to the machine you could have fried em.   If you do have to buy these parts again I might would stay away from whoever you bought your machine from but if I a was your supplier that you got the machine from my 1st question would be why are all 3 components not working.  
As far as dealing with Nayax, good luck with that.  If you search through the beverage and food vending section there are people practically pulling their teeth out trying to deal with nayax, and you only have 1 unit.   Good luck with that.  
If you didn’t disconnect any components and reconnect with power to machine then it means the machine hadn’t been gone through and thoroughly tested.  Did they sale it as refurbed or used?  
 

Your next location you find you will need to buy equipment, get it somewhere and test all these things out yourself before putting on location. 

[PapayaVending]

I never disconnected any parts with power to the machine. And the tech was VERY careful about that as well, kept repeating it to me over and over. It was sold as "refurbished" to me, but the supplier made a comment when I bought it that nobody checks anything even when selling machines as refurbished. Sounds like he probably didn't test anything before selling it to me. I guess I'm screwed with Nayax, but I'll try.

[Vendo Mike]

I wouldn't purchase any "new" coinage as those will cost more than the machine did. MDB coin and dbvs are very common and can be purchased "reman" from reputable distributors.   I don't know who you purchased from but if they say it's refurbed but didn't test anything,  I'd look elsewhere.  To me, the word "refurb" denotes that someone went over the machine replacing common failure parts like vend motor switch clusters, broken coin chute, greased the leveling legs and cleaned the machine inside and out.  If they just sold the unit "as is", that's a whole other story entirely.

That said, whoever sold the equipment likely would allow you to plug your mech and dbv into a machine in their shop to test them.  That should give you an idea on whether your coinage actually needs attention or if the machine is giving you problems.  If they aren't willing to do that, I'd start looking elsewhere as that's pretty basic support.   Also, under the service mode in your 501E, you should be able to read any errors.   Share those on here and we will try to help.

[Gizmo Vending]

Used is: bought/traded from an operator or auction maybe power washed and sold to another operator.  
Refurbished is: bought/traded from an operator or auction and gone through and tested, painted any components replaced that need it, new flavor cards and lights and known working validator and coin mech installed.  But I guess those terms are interchangeable.   See if he will replace those components, name drop the guy that helped you with your machine. If he won’t replace them, then you’ve gotta choice to make between not buying from someone that didn’t take care of their customer or buying from him as you are now 1 and a half weeks on location without working equipment.  If you have a job during the day be prepared to spend your lunch breaks taking care of this stuff.  No worries, this is how you start and learn.  

[PapayaVending]

I spoke to my supplier this morning. He insists he tested the validator and the coin mech before they left and it was working. But he told me to bring them both back to him and he will replace them for me with units that he will test for me when I'm there. That's my next step.

And yes, I have a full-time job. This was suppose to be a secondary gig.

[AZVendor]

I'm surprised that he told you outright that he sold you the machine as "refurbished" but then also said that such a machine doesn't get tested.  He doesn't know the definition of the word and I would think twice about buying another machine from him. There is used, refurbished (or rebuilt) and new.  Nothing in between.  Clean and working and location-ready are loose terms bandied about as well.

Anything not sold as used or As Is, must be fully tested to be completely working or it's just an as-is machine. 

[PapayaVending]

Update: I took the coin mech and bill validator out of the machine and went to my supplier. He wired the bill validator to one of his machines and it wasn't accepting dollar bills in his machine either. He admitted it was faulty and gave me another one without any hesitation. We tested the  "new" bill validator right then and there many times and I was comfortable it was working just fine.

Next up was the coin mech. Again, he wired it up to one of his machines to test it. He started dropping coins into it and the machine was reading it just fine. He looked at me and said the coin mech is fine. If his machine was reading the coins, does that mean it was working okay? I feel good about it at that point because I saw with my own eyes my coin mech was reading coins just fine on his machine. He was very friendly and helpful the entire time, I appreciated his help. I took everything back to my location and installed them. The bills are working perfectly, but once the coin mech was back into my machine, it wasn't reading coins. Coins just keep dropping into the chute. I unplugged the machine, double checked things were plugged in tightly, and tried again. But the coins just are not reading in my machine, they keep falling through the chute. I was amazed because I just saw it reading coins when installed in his machine. Any thoughts here? What am I doing wrong that's causing it not to work in my machine? Or should I just bite the bullet and just buy a refurbished coin mech? What's the go to place to purchase parts?

Separately, I did get a hold of Nayax a few days ago and asked them about the error code I was getting. The tech on the phone told me if there was a problem with my coin mech or bill validator, the Nayax would not function properly. Furthermore, he was seeing that my Nayax is online and it wasn't a service issue. He told me to get the machine up and running correctly first. If the problem persists after the machine is fixed, then to call back and we can troubleshoot further. You guys probably have a lot of experience with this, but is what he's telling me correct? If the machine isn't working correctly, it could cause the Nayax issue? 

[AZVendor]

Make sure the coin mech is level and that the coin return lever inside the machine isn't touching the coin mech lever.  If those things are fine then take a video of what it's doing to show him and then have him exchange your coin mech.  Because this is a National machine it's also possible that the coin mech interface board is bad and needs to be replaced.  

[Vendo Mike]

If the coin mech works in any machine, it should be fine. When it was tested, were you using your "Y" harness that connects the DBV and Coin Mech to the machine or the supplier's?  If that was not tested and both units operate in the supplier's machine, this could be the common thread.  If that is fine and you have an extension harness from the board to the coinage, you'll want to confirm it's functional as well.  Also, being a national machine, I believe there are settings in the board for MDB or dumb mech that you'd want to confirm.

[PapayaVending]

1 hour ago, AZVendor said:

Make sure the coin mech is level and that the coin return lever inside the machine isn't touching the coin mech lever.  If those things are fine then take a video of what it's doing to show him and then have him exchange your coin mech.  Because this is a National machine it's also possible that the coin mech interface board is bad and needs to be replaced.  

 

I'm planning to go back in a little bit so I'll check that the coin return lever isn't hitting the coin mech lever. 

 

50 minutes ago, Vendo Mike said:

If the coin mech works in any machine, it should be fine. When it was tested, were you using your "Y" harness that connects the DBV and Coin Mech to the machine or the supplier's?  If that was not tested and both units operate in the supplier's machine, this could be the common thread.  If that is fine and you have an extension harness from the board to the coinage, you'll want to confirm it's functional as well.  Also, being a national machine, I believe there are settings in the board for MDB or dumb mech that you'd want to confirm.

 

We used the supplier's harness. That could be the other missing factor that hasn't been tested. Is there a preferred list of vendor(s) to buy parts from? Or do people just pick up what they need on ebay? If it's not the lever, I'm just going to order the harness. I'd appreciate if you could point me to the correct part. Thank you.

 

Last, is there a way to turn accepting coins on/off in this machine? I'm wondering if there is a switch or an option in the menu somewhere that may be "off" and it simply isn't reading coins b/c it's turned off? I'm searching, but can't seem to find it.

Edited April 4, 2023 by PapayaVending

[Vendo Mike]

The coin mech normally plugs into a "y" harness that comes from the DBV.  If there's an extension harness to the board, that would be from the machine mfg.  I would google "vending distributor near me" to get an idea of options.  If you have one close by, establish a relationship and get your parts there. If not, you can always ebay but the parts on there may or may not be any good. Keep an eye on the reviews.

[PapayaVending]

2nd update of the day: After scrolling through the menus and reading the options, I noticed there was an option for "BILLS". If BILLS was set to YES, the machine only accepts bills and turns the coin mech off. So I turned the BILLS option to NO. After that, it started accepting my coins and reading them. However, it still will not disburse any change if you overpay. If I put a dollar bill in and push coin return, nothing happens. Is there something else I'm still missing, or is this just another symptom of a bad coin mech?

Next bad thing, I started doing a bunch of test vends. On 2 of the columns, it will randomly drop 3 cans every now and then. On the first wide column with the 20oz Gatorade, it will also sometimes drop multiple Gatorades. This is after I paid the professional tech to come in, make sure the right shims were in, and make sure it was working okay. Well, it's clearly not working okay if it sometimes drops 1 can and sometimes drops 3 cans. When I asked the tech about rods, he said I didn't need them. So my can columns currently do not have rods. Is that my issue? I assumed he knew what he was talking about, but someone please advise me. Because I am not happy and I am planning to call them tomorrow.

On a positive note, the Nayax is working now. Looks like the Nayax guy was right about that.

[Vendo Mike]

It's been too long since I set up a Dixie so I don't recall. I would defer to the operators like Gizmo above that said...  "You will need a rod for every narrow column that you are vending cans from and possibly water if it isn’t 20 oz."

With regard to the change issue, I would confirm the mech CAN payout coins by using the CPO8 or Coin Payout function from the board. Once that's established, look for settings in the service menu that would prevent payout.

[AZVendor]

Your can selections require the rods installed in the middle holes front and back in the rotor.  No rods can lead to mis-vending.  I have 35+ years of experience.  How many years does he have in?  He probably said no since he didn't have any with him. But that wouldn't cause it to vend three cans at once.  Here is the set up:  https://rc.cranems.com/Uploads/96-470-04.pdf

[PapayaVending]

37 minutes ago, AZVendor said:

Your can selections require the rods installed in the middle holes front and back in the rotor.  No rods can lead to mis-vending.  I have 35+ years of experience.  How many years does he have in?  He probably said no since he didn't have any with him. But that wouldn't cause it to vend three cans at once.  Here is the set up:  https://rc.cranems.com/Uploads/96-470-04.pdf

Sorry for the silly question, but if the rods aren't the reason it is vending 3 cans, any idea why it's vending 3 cans only sometimes? And what exactly does the rod assembly do when you have 12 oz cans in the narrow columns? Trying to understand it's purpose. Last, any further thoughts on why the coin mech won't return change? Thank you.

[AZVendor]

Here is the manual:  https://www.dsvendinginc.com/images/pdf-manuals/S2D-Program.pdf  On page 4 set your escrow setting to 3 and on page 11 make sure Multivend is off.  Then put a nickle, dime and quarter in and press the coin return to see if they are returned to you.  If they aren't but the credit is left on the display then open the door and pull the door switch out.  If the credit is still there then press down on the coin mech lever and see if the credit is paid out.  If the credit is gone when you pull the door switch out then repeat entering the three coins and then press the coin mech lever.  If the coins aren't paid out and the credit stays on the display then the coin mech return system is broken and the coin mech must be repaired.

On the question of the rods, they are there so that none of the cans that should not vend will roll back into the rotor and then not drop on the next vend.  The rods keep the cans out on the edge of the rotor for positive vending.  If it only sometimes vends 3 cans then that could be a bad motor switch which is common on E model machines.  The switches are rated at 125v ac but they have 5v dc run through them.  It doesn't take much corrosion to prevent the 5v from getting through so the motor doesn't get a signal to end the vend sometimes.  

Edited April 5, 2023 by AZVendor

[PapayaVending]

Today's update: AZVendor, you were right about the Escrow setting. After changing that, the machine started to give change. Got that issue resolved. Can confirm the coin mech is good. I called the vending tech company and told them I was still having the "vending 3 cans" issue, they said they would send someone out at no cost since they never solved the issue.

The guy tested each column through the machine and every column worked perfect. Then he suggested testing it with money. When we started to test with actual money, it started dropping 3 cans again. He immediately told me the control board is the culprit because it's sending a bad signal when money is inserted. He actually had a control board with him, so suggested swapping it out to test it. He told me I didn't have to buy it from him (they were charging $350), it was just to test his hypothesis. After swapping in his control board, we tested it again with money and I can confirm each and every single column dropped 1 can over and over and over. He was very conclusive that I had a bad control board. At that point with his working control board, the machine was accepting bills, giving change, and dispensing cans properly. The machine was operating perfect. In my opinion, it seemed like he found the problem b/c it was operating properly for the first time ever. Have you guys ever heard of this issue before? 

The reason I ask is because I went back to my supplier with this information. He straight up told me the tech I hired is wrong. The supplier is telling me that "the control board has nothing to do with how many cans the machine vends". I explained what we did, but he thinks we are wrong. He doesn't seem very happy about the situation either. I looked online and I see the used control boards for ~$100, and I'm considering just paying for one that I know that has been tested and is working rather than deal with my supplier who clearly skipped a lot of steps when selling me this machine. 

From what I saw with my own eyes, the new control board fixed the "vending 3 cans" issue. I just need to know if I should go with my gut and what I saw and buy the new control board? 

[AZVendor]

I haven't had a board cause that before because it's the motor switches that tell the board to kill the power to the motors.  I would bet that your motor switch harness wasn't fully plugged in to your logic board.  So if you still have your board make sure all of the connectors are fully pressed in and then see if it vends okay.  If it doesn't then look at the board pinout for the motor switch harness and see if a pin has been damaged or bent over. Also look closely at the motor harnesses as they come out from under the motor cover as the metal cover can cut through the thin insulation on those tiny wires and short them out.  

[Vendo Mike]

It's hard to argue repeatable results.  I agree with AZ that the motor harness could have been an issue as due to the way those don't have a good strain relief.  The weight of the harness pulls itself out of the socket. 

In a previous life I worked on hundreds of MPC, SII, SIID boards.  I don't recall seeing that issue before.  I can say that fouled up logic or garbage in the ram can cause all sorts of odd problems.  If the original board is still available and you've concluded that the harness is fine,  I would pull the battery (or the little jumper) for a couple minutes to clear the ram and start from scratch.  From there, program the machine for pricing and test with money to see if the problem returns.  

[PapayaVending]

Yes I still have the old control board. I'll go back tomorrow morning to be sure all the harnesses are plugged in and do more test vends with money. If the harness or pulling the battery don't fix it, I'm just going to order a new control board. I know I'm close and I know what I saw today, just want to get it resolved.

[PapayaVending]

Today's update: I checked the board pinout and didn't see any damaged or bent pins. I put the control board back into the machine, made sure everything was tightly plugged in, and tried to vend with money. I'm back to vending 3 cans with my control board. It repeatedly kept dropping 3 cans again. I think I've seen enough. I understand you guys have said you haven't seen this issue before, but the only time this machine worked properly in my possession was the 10 minutes we had an alternate control board plugged in. The tests with a tech present have proven that to me. I'm going to purchase a control board and go with my gut on this one.