Pricing Ideas - Let Me Know Your Thoughts

[candyman007]

KSL Pricing Ideas:  This is Not Available.  Just looking for comments and feedback.  Please keep all comments related to the pricing!

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Triple Head Locations, Double Head Locations, Sticker, Toy Machines, Etc.  

New Location Idea:  $59.99  1 Location, 1 Free Replacement & 1 Turn Down

(This means if you don't place the first location we send (then without trying it) you can turn it down and we will find a new one.  If you don't place a machine at the second location then you are out of luck.  However, if you try the second location and it doesn't work out then you would have the opportunity to get a Free Replacement)

New Package Idea:  $519.99 - 10 Triple Head Locations, 3 Free Replacements & 3 Turn Downs

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Single Head Locations, Gumball Machines, Etc.  

New Location Idea:  $49.99  1 Location, 1 Free Replacement & 1 Turn Down

New Package Idea:  $419.99 - 10 Triple Head Locations, 3 Free Replacements & 3 Turn Downs

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Definitions:

Free Replacement - If a location doesn't perform you can request a replacement free of charge.

Turn Down - You can turn down a location without trying the location.  This is by choice, not because a location told you no.

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The idea is to equalize the playing field and make things fair and Understandable for everyone.  Some vendors are far more critical of locations then others.  Some vendors always try locations and some are picky.  The goal is to be up front with what you are getting and afford every vendor the same opportunity.

[sherlock]

A few questions you need answers to before putting this into action:

How would you guys handle the declines where we show up and the person that OK'd the machine denies ever having spoken to your staff or denies having given the "OK"?

How would you handle declines where we show up and the manager or assistant manager listed as our contact declines our machine because his boss over-rode his initial decision to accept my machine?

Would either of those declines count towards the ONE decline even though it is not the vendors fault?

Also, I wonder if your 1 replacement 1 turn down isn't going to lead to confusion when folks order more than 1 location from you.

For example, let's say I order 10 locations from you.

I then get a few locations in one day from your staff.

If I decline location #2 of those few locations for for whatever reason...which location will count as my last chance "replacement" for that location #2 decline?

And when sending out an email for a "last chance replacement" will the email clearly be ID'd as a "last chance replacement location" so that I know?

Otherwise, I may think a location email is for location #5 of 10, when it is in fact my last chance replacement for my having declined location #2.

Who's going to keep track of all that mess?

Sounds like a recipe for confusion....sounds like a pain in the arse. 

[Iolaus]

As far as your proposed pricing goes, I certainly don't mind paying a bit more than your current prices.  But I would forgo the $80 discount for a package of 10 and order locations one at a time because then I would get a turn down and a replacement for each location, rather than for just 30% of them.

I'm guessing I probably fall into the "picky customer" category.  However, a MAJOR factor that went into my decision to order from you is the right to reject locations once I see them.  I understand your staff works hard and makes lots of phone calls to get these locations.  But, they are on the phone and can't see the location.  I don't think I've been unreasonable with any of the locations I've rejected, and have certainly put machines in several that I'm concerned about.

If I walk into a place that is no bigger than my spare bedroom and there's already two triples there offering all the products I offer, what sense does it make for me to put the machine in? 

If I go into a place that has no air conditioning, and it gets to 120 degrees here in the summer, what sense does it make to put a machine in there just to have product turn to goo? 

I think these are reasonable things to be critical about when I actually have "eyes on" the locations.

[mainor5251]

I would normally say no I wouldn't be interested in a locating company that's offering that kind of package except for the fact I know first hand the quality of locations you guys get, so I would not have a problem with not having the choice to turn down more locations or fewer replacements as long as you still offer some kind of paid replacement like current $20 replacement fee and you keep doing a good job working off wish list.  Wouldn't mind seeing the price break on fewer locations perhaps 5, I think this would help getting new clients because some people are hesitant to commit to a lager order due to locator's reputation.  I appreciate you trying to get feedback from your customers, shows you care and still want to meet are needs while trying to stay profitable on your end.

[candyman007]

To Sherlock:  Ok, I'm already thinking that maybe this is way too much confusion in my effort to make it simple.  If you go to a business and the manager or owner tells you no, you can't place a machine here, then it would not count against your Turn Downs. 

To Lolaus:  Good points.  I think inspecting locations prior to placement is important.  However, for those that are not picky, it's costing them more per location due to those that are. 

To Mainor5251:  A lot of our clients find us other places on the internet besides Vendiscuss.  For them it's important that they see something of value that they want. 

So let's work on this.  I think the Turn Down idea is a flop before even trying it.  Is there another way you can see that is easy to protect Kick Start without forcing the placement of machines?  For instance, if we get an order for 100 locations and we send out 50 in a week and the client turns down 40 of them then we've got a big issue. 

Regards,

Rob

[Iolaus]

Perhaps come up with a list of legitimate reasons that a location could be turned down.  Of course, you'd be relying on the honesty and integrity of your clients to do this.  Maybe have them upload a photo justifying the reason.

For example, there are three machines already there.  This is a good reason to reject a location.  Have your client upload a photo of the machines that are already there.

[Iolaus]

Another thought that just popped into my head about turn downs.  Perhaps you can make it an "upgrade" to be able to reject a location, kind of like your restaurant only upgrade.

[candyman007]

I like that second idea. 

What do you think about this.

New Location Idea:  $59.99  1 Location, 1 Free Replacement

Since every single location comes with a free replacement, you are required to try each location out.

What do you think about that?

Regards,

Rob

[Iolaus]

That seems like it would work.  I think you would still need to have the contigency that you don't have to use the replacement if someone "higher up" over-rules the initial decision maker's approval before you can even put the machine in.  I guess this situation would fall under the 90-day kick out policy if you get kicked out before even getting in. 

[sherlock]

"Requiring" that the vendor try every location out is a little tough.

What of those locations in unsafe areas?

I would be pretty unhappy if I'm "forced" to try a location that is unsafe for me to service or unsafe for my machine to be left in.

[candyman007]

Absolutely.  It would be contingent upon being able to place the machine and being in a safe area. 

Can anyone else second this as being a fair deal?  Also one that has good value?

New Location Idea:  $59.99  1 Location, 1 Free Replacement

You have to place the machine but every location comes with a free replacement in case you need it.

The only reason you could turn down a location would be because of safety or because management said no. 

Regards,

Rob

[JPVendCo.]

I personally would like right of refusal. there are other reasons for rejections.

[sherlock]

Absolutely.  It would be contingent upon being able to place the machine and being in a safe area. 

Can anyone else second this as being a fair deal?  Also one that has good value?

New Location Idea:  $59.99  1 Location, 1 Free Replacement

You have to place the machine but every location comes with a free replacement in case you need it.

The only reason you could turn down a location would be because of safety or because management said no. 

Regards,

Rob

Does that free replacement end at the 90day mark like your current replacement guideline?

[bulkboy]

Hi Rob,

I hope I'm not guilty of straying too far from the topic of pricing.  I have used you in the past, but don't anymore.  I think you are a wonderful businessman, but overall, I was too disappointed with the quality of locations.  Have you considered using Google Maps to get a street view visual of each business as a part of the selection process?  I know there were a few locations you would not have sent me to had you seen what I saw then I first pulled up.  Might help reduce the turn down rate.  Just a thought.

Stan

[s.weir]

bulkboy has a good point, this might help a little.  However the old saying still applies here, you can't judge a book by its cover.

[sherlock]

Sorry...just a little off-topic.

I know you asked for comments to stay on pricing, but since we're talking about the changes you are making at KSL, Rob.

Still haven't seen that needed change we discussed a few months ago:

Contact person name should have Mr. or Ms. in front of it.

A vendor doesn't know if his contact is a man or woman with names like Terry, Chris, Pat, etc.

I even had the awkward situation of asking for a "Mr." when the contact was Bobby...turns out Bobby was a woman.

That kind of mistake doesn't give a good first impression.

There...no more "non-pricing" posts from me this thread. I promise.

[lurtsman]

Could've sworn I stayed up last night to post in this thread. List of reasons to reject a location needs to include "I have a machine there." Also, 59.99 works for toys, however the payback period would be brutal on a single or double doing candy/gums.

[The Mage]

When I go to the website and look at my stats, it shows 2 locations turned down, but I did not turn either one of these locations down.  One thought they were getting a candy machine, and then decided not to allow anything to be placed, and the other was a location where the guy decided he didn't want the machine, pointing out that he didn't have a place for it, and admittedly in this case I couldn't argue.

Now you do have me listed as Kicked out of the Chinese Rest.  But that was a relocation for poor performance.  Now the Mexican Rest. I was actually kicked out of, and that is listed correctly.  (Well by the mall, not the actual business.)

i just placed a sticker machine.  It is in a cramped BBQ place that has a total of 6 tables.  It is kind of hidden behind trees, and is located near a trailer park.  I will give it a try, but I would like it to at least produce some kind of profit.  If it does, fine.

9 locations resulted in being in 5 currently, and 3 of them are still fairly new, so I cannot judge their performance yet.  But I am thinking that my new candy replacement location will be a good one.  (I plan on checking it today.)

Now in a perfect world it would be very simple.  Buy a location, place the machine.  We get the location, you get the fee.  But unfortunately some locations suck, and it's nice to know there is some backing for those locations.  

I have worked in businesses where a customer receives something screwed up, and the attempt to fix the situation results in 2 or 3 more screw ups, even though there was only one mistake out of every 50 times.

Just simply knowing that I don't need to get stuck with bad locations after paying for them makes the deal worth it.  There is also the worry that if my replacement can't be replaced, will there be any motivation to get a decent location?  

Now i do realize not all your customers are reasonable.  And then I am sure you need to check to make sure a machine was relocated, or not placed.  (It's what I would do, and what I expect to have happened at all the locations that didn't work out for me.)

Right now you have a 90 day kick out guarantee, and sales guarantee, then a 2 year $20 replacement location guarantee.  One change you could make is to guarantee a replacement for any reason, but prorate it.  The quicker the person requests a replacement, the cheaper it is.  immediately it is practically nothing, 6 months down the line it is only 25%, half at the year, 75% after 18 months, and so on.

[mizugori]

I am about to order several locations from Rob, and I must admit the pricing and all the different conditions are a little confusing. For example, I am planning to get some northwestern 60's and 80's, and placing them as 2 heads on 1 stand. So, in some locations I will be placing 2 60's on one stand. It is clear that this is a double head machine, which should be 41.99 to place. However, if I choose to vend 1" toys instead of gumballs in the 60's, does that suddenly make it a toy machine, and thus 59.99 to place? or is 59.99 only for the larger 2" capsule toy machines?

As far as the right of refusal, it says that you have right of refusal on the website, and Rob confirmed this when I spoke with him, however he does try to encourage you to try the locations first. I totally understand that and especially since I am just starting out, I figure I will try anything and see what the results are before judging it - I don't feel I'm in a position to judge how well a location will do just based upon my first impression after I see it. However, if there are other machines placed there I definitely think you should have the right to refuse. In some cases I would still place my own, but it should be the vendor's call at that point.

As far as placing them in dangerous areas, I don't see why this should be an issue. I provided Rob with a list of several zip codes and all of my locations are supposed to fall within those zip codes. I didn't provide any zip codes where I would need a six shooter to collect my quarters.

[mainor5251]

I hope $59.99 wouldn't be the price for singles.  Seems like we would be getting alot less but paying  more.  I definitely understand not allowing so many refusals but why the price increase.  With a new business and trying to grow I can't justify spending that for 1 location.  So if we want a restaurant upgrade would that make it $69.99?  I guess with so few legitmate competitor's you can probably get that though.  

I've always spoke highly of Kickstart but all these different scenarios just want me to locate all my own machines.  And for the overly picky vendors thanks for ruin a good thing  :'(

[sherlock]

I am about to order several locations from Rob, and I must admit the pricing and all the different conditions are a little confusing. For example, I am planning to get some northwestern 60's and 80's, and placing them as 2 heads on 1 stand. So, in some locations I will be placing 2 60's on one stand. It is clear that this is a double head machine, which should be 41.99 to place. However, if I choose to vend 1" toys instead of gumballs in the 60's, does that suddenly make it a toy machine, and thus 59.99 to place? or is 59.99 only for the larger 2" capsule toy machines?

Yes. If you vend a 1" toy instead of GB it suddenly makes it a toy machine ($59.99).

GB machines can be placed in a lot of locations that would not necessarily be a good place for toy products.

Kids of all ages love GB's.

Toys on the other hand require at least a decent amount of younger foot-traffic.

So, by vending toys in even one of your machines -- you limit the number/type of places KSL can contact on your behalf.

Don't mean to speak for Rob.

I just know the answer because I had the same question when I started with KSL.

As far as placing them in dangerous areas, I don't see why this should be an issue. I provided Rob with a list of several zip codes and all of my locations are supposed to fall within those zip codes. I didn't provide any zip codes where I would need a six shooter to collect my quarters.

It may not be an issue in many cities/towns.

But, I'm in Texas. It's an issue here.

We have some zip codes that cover a lot of area here.

Some of those larger zip codes are populated by a wide variety of demographics.

You could go from safe to unsafe areas and still be in the same zip.

[mizugori]

Sherlock, my plan was to do several 2 head 60's with one head vending gumballs and the other head vending 1" toys. Also I was going to try a few double head 80 setups.

Do you think this is a bad plan? Should I not be doing combinations of 1 60 vending gumballs with 1 60 vending 1" caps? Should I be going with some single 60 gumball machine setups?? Maybe I should do setups of 2 60s both selling 1" toys, and then if a location does well I can try to approach the owner about adding a single gumball machine on a stand later... What do you think?

I really want to place my order but I keep changing my mind about what configurations I should start with, and I don't want to do something that's going to make it difficult for Rob to locate them for me.

[sherlock]

I hope $59.99 wouldn't be the price for singles.  Seems like we would be getting alot less but paying  more.  I definitely understand not allowing so many refusals but why the price increase.  With a new business and trying to grow I can't justify spending that for 1 location.  So if we want a restaurant upgrade would that make it $69.99?  I guess with so few legitmate competitor's you can probably get that though.  

I agree.

Anyone trying to locate candy singles would probably consider $59.99 too high.

However, if it's candy singles someone wants to locate, I strongly advise against getting ANY locator to do the work for you.

Candy singles, in my experience, are easy to locate.

You could put those in pretty much ANY business with decent foot traffic and do well.

I don't have too many of those because I don't like messing with candy.

But, I didn't pay a locator for any that I do have.

I simply picked up the phone or stopped by if I wanted to put some out.

I have by far my highest success rate when locating candy/GB singles.

[sherlock]

And for the overly picky vendors thanks for ruin a good thing  :'(

Rob,

On the topic of picky vendors...

Before considering the pricing change and replacement procedure adjustments, was there any research done to verify the reasons for declines?

I ask because The Mage brought up the fact that some of his "Declines" on your site were not actually declines.

The reason he didn't place were NOT his choice.

I too have many declines on my list that were NOT my choice.

You had a problem with your website for a while that disallowed my putting in a reason for the declines.

So that was information you still do not have available to you.

If minimizing "declines" are the driving force behind your change in price/procedures, it's probably a good idea to know the cause of the declines.

You may be surprised at what you find.

Just raising prices and cutting back benefits isn't the answer.

Rather than implementing changes for your customers...implement changes for your staff.

What is your staff doing to minimize the following:

-Toy/Sticker locations in businesses with NO kid-customers (no families).

-Giving customers locations that were not OK'd by the REAL decision-maker.

-Giving customers locations in businesses already saturated with vending equipment.

If it were possible to minimize or remove these three issues on your end, almost none of my declines would exist.

[sherlock]

Sherlock, my plan was to do several 2 head 60's with one head vending gumballs and the other head vending 1" toys. Also I was going to try a few double head 80 setups.

Do you think this is a bad plan? Should I not be doing combinations of 1 60 vending gumballs with 1 60 vending 1" caps? Should I be going with some single 60 gumball machine setups?? Maybe I should do setups of 2 60s both selling 1" toys, and then if a location does well I can try to approach the owner about adding a single gumball machine on a stand later... What do you think?

I really want to place my order but I keep changing my mind about what configurations I should start with, and I don't want to do something that's going to make it difficult for Rob to locate them for me.

Sending you a PM to keep this thread on the topic of pricing.