Anyone used Fawn Vendors out of IA?

[beejaykc aka Munch A Bunch]

Has anyone used Fawn Vendors out of IA? I'm working with my local distributor on buying machines. It's a typical one stop shop in that they'll help with placements (don't worry, I'm checking references and talking with their current customers). Machines seem great, but expensive. Seems like locator fees are built into machine costs. But it's a good financing program and the local distributor seems cool to work with.

Fawn has been around forever according to their website. Factory in Des Moines, IA.

Any experience in working with these guys or similar?

Thanks!!

[mission vending]

Has anyone used Fawn Vendors out of IA? I'm working with my local distributor on buying machines. It's a typical one stop shop in that they'll help with placements (don't worry, I'm checking references and talking with their current customers). Machines seem great, but expensive. Seems like locator fees are built into machine costs. But it's a good financing program and the local distributor seems cool to work with.

Fawn has been around forever according to their website. Factory in Des Moines, IA.

Any experience in working with these guys or similar?

Thanks!!

This is one of the Wittern Companies. They have a number of brands including USI, Federal, Perfect Break Systems and in house financing by Inland Finance or Ferderal Finance. The equipment is all the same, made on the same factory floor, slightly different cosmetic packages and in some cases some differences in electronics.

Personally I have used them in the past, when I was starting out it was a very easy way to grow. Especially taking over other vendors that buy 4-10 machines and then give up on vending because they discover it is actually work, or they wind up with unprofitable locations and can't make the debt service payments out of their cash flow and have to dig into personal funds to make the payments. Usually a refinance when you take over the notes will make them cash flow.

The equipment is not bad, I still have quite a few pieces 15+ years later with no major issues, however IT IS A VERY EXPENSIVE WAY TO BUILD A BUSINESS.

[Golfdogs]

I have bought a few of those accounts where the machines were financed and they could make the payments. One guy told me there were no liens on the equipment, only to get a call six months later from the finance company. He must have paid up since I never heard back from them. Wouldn't you know, one of those machines (3056 snack) gives my customers fits with 'everything' getting hung up. I am looking to replace that one before I lose a pretty decent account.

[beejaykc aka Munch A Bunch]

Basic + It sounds like you're dealing with a few issues there. My question really was around working with Fawn and these companies that sell packages with location promises.

The equipment I get from Fawn in the package is brand new. They like to place a 23 selection snack and 12 selection soda machine together. They think putting credit card machines on them is a good $495 per addition too. (any thoughts on that?)

Thanks guys!

[mission vending]

Basic + It sounds like you're dealing with a few issues there. My question really was around working with Fawn and these companies that sell packages with location promises.

The equipment I get from Fawn in the package is brand new. They like to place a 23 selection snack and 12 selection soda machine together. They think putting credit card machines on them is a good $495 per addition too. (any thoughts on that?)

Thanks guys!

The guys that you are actually dealing with are independent distributors so be sure to check them out carefully and get any promises in writing. The CC reader MIGHT be worth it on the drink machine but you can add it at a later date if the sales volume justifies it. They like having them added to the machines because it makes it easier to get a potential new location to sign up when they are promised "new, state of the art equipment"

[beejaykc aka Munch A Bunch]

The guys that you are actually dealing with are independent distributors so be sure to check them out carefully and get any promises in writing. The CC reader MIGHT be worth it on the drink machine but you can add it at a later date if the sales volume justifies it. They like having them added to the machines because it makes it easier to get a potential new location to sign up when they are promised "new, state of the art equipment"

All true. And probably worth the money. Thanks. I'll continue to check them out. I have some references to call.

[moondog]

Has anyone used Fawn Vendors out of IA? I'm working with my local distributor on buying machines. It's a typical one stop shop in that they'll help with placements (don't worry, I'm checking references and talking with their current customers). Machines seem great, but expensive. Seems like locator fees are built into machine costs. But it's a good financing program and the local distributor seems cool to work with.

Fawn has been around forever according to their website. Factory in Des Moines, IA.

Any experience in working with these guys or similar?

Thanks!!

Exactly how much money are we talking about here? Your question is pretty open ended. If I were buying new machines I'd go with Royal for sodas and AMS for snacks. We're talking roughly 9 to 10 grand depending on the models.

The bottom line is that it takes a really good account to justify such an expense, financed or not. I'm talking about an account that grosses 2 grand a month or better. These accounts don't grow on trees and I'd be real interested to know how an equiptment dealer could just come up with one for you.

Like Mission said, Fawns have been around for a long time and are made by Wittern. I've got a couple of Wittern machines and they're basically the "chevys" of the vending biz.

Give us better details on this deal and maybe we could come up with more specific answers.

[mission vending]

Exactly how much money are we talking about here? Your question is pretty open ended. If I were buying new machines I'd go with Royal for sodas and AMS for snacks. We're talking roughly 9 to 10 grand depending on the models.

The bottom line is that it takes a really good account to justify such an expense, financed or not. I'm talking about an account that grosses 2 grand a month or better. These accounts don't grow on trees and I'd be real interested to know how an equiptment dealer could just come up with one for you.

Like Mission said, Fawns have been around for a long time and are made by Wittern. I've got a couple of Wittern machines and they're basically the "chevys" of the vending biz.

Give us better details on this deal and maybe we could come up with more specific answers.

There is a guy in El Paso that is a distributor for Perfect Break Systems, same business model, they secure the locations and then sell the machine and location to a operator. I've known him for years and on occasion have done business with him. A 23 select snack and 12 select through Ron would run around 8-9 K. I would think that the Fawn dealer that beejaykc is talking to would not be much different.

[beejaykc aka Munch A Bunch]

There is a guy in El Paso that is a distributor for Perfect Break Systems, same business model, they secure the locations and then sell the machine and location to a operator. I've known him for years and on occasion have done business with him. A 23 select snack and 12 select through Ron would run around 8-9 K. I would think that the Fawn dealer that beejaykc is talking to would not be much different.

$8k is about right. I know it's expensive, but considering they're brand new machines I feel it's pretty fair. If the locations don't cash flow, I can move them. Distributor in my area seems fair and willing to do what he can to help.

[mission vending]

Again, a very expensive way to grow. I've never seen anyone using this way to start and grow a business last 5 years.

[moondog]

I don't know guys - those are small machines. Any account good enough to justify an 8k expenditure is probably too big for those machines. A good account will require a 5 wide snack machine and a 600 + can capacity soda machine. Or you can count on servicing them twice a week. Ask your distributor about some larger machines.

[beejaykc aka Munch A Bunch]

I don't know guys - those are small machines. Any account good enough to justify an 8k expenditure is probably too big for those machines. A good account will require a 5 wide snack machine and a 600 + can capacity soda machine. Or you can count on servicing them twice a week. Ask your distributor about some larger machines.

23 selection snack and 12 selection soda are small machines? MP 23 is the snack model and BC 12 is the soda (728 can)

[moondog]

23 selection snack and 12 selection soda are small machines? MP 23 is the snack model and BC 12 is the soda (728 can)

The soda machine sounds fine capacity wise. The snack machine is on the small side (most of mine are 40-45 selection). Given that you'll tend to make most of your money on the soda machine, this deal might be alright. It's really going to hinge on how good of an account you're getting. If it grossed $1,500 a month you'd be in business.

[beejaykc aka Munch A Bunch]

The soda machine sounds fine capacity wise. The snack machine is on the small side (most of mine are 40-45 selection). Given that you'll tend to make most of your money on the soda machine, this deal might be alright. It's really going to hinge on how good of an account you're getting. If it grossed $1,500 a month you'd be in business.

That's reassuring. Thanks. It's always risky relying on somone else to place the equipment I suppose - but I can move it if need be. I'm a sales guy in my "real job" - so I think I can handle the customer front end side.

I've still got some questions for the distributor, so it's not a done deal yet. But I'm doing my homework.

[kiwi]

That's reassuring. Thanks. It's always risky relying on somone else to place the equipment I suppose - but I can move it if need be. I'm a sales guy in my "real job" - so I think I can handle the customer front end side.

I've still got some questions for the distributor, so it's not a done deal yet. But I'm doing my homework.

With your background in sales wouldn't you be better finding the sites yourself & purchasing the equipment somewhere cheaper?

I am not sure where the cheapest place is to buy the equipment you are looking at but I did find a place called Vencoa that lists there prices on there website.

To purchase similar equipment to the 23 select snack & 12 select soda you would be looking at:

-Mercato 3000(23 select snack) $2895.00 -CB700(12 select soda) $3895.00 Total: $6790.00

They also do 0% Down Financing according to there website.

I would also suggest you look at other manufactures & distributors as you may find a better price somewhere else & save more!!

[beejaykc aka Munch A Bunch]

With your background in sales wouldn't you be better finding the sites yourself & purchasing the equipment somewhere cheaper?

I am not sure where the cheapest place is to buy the equipment you are looking at but I did find a place called Vencoa that lists there prices on there website.

To purchase similar equipment to the 23 select snack & 12 select soda you would be looking at:

-Mercato 3000(23 select snack) $2895.00 -CB700(12 select soda) $3895.00 Total: $6790.00

They also do 0% Down Financing according to there website.

I would also suggest you look at other manufactures & distributors as you may find a better price somewhere else & save more!!

Thanks for the feedback. However, being new to the business I think there's something to be said for working with an "all-in-one" solution to start with. Having said that, the Vencoa pricing (which I'd already found online) is comprable to what I'd get from Fawn.....within a few hundred.

As for the 0% down.....only 1 in a million qualify for a true 0%. Just like buying a car. Everyone advertises 0% financing, but the reality is only those with 800+ credit score qualify.

I spoke with a reference for over an hour last night. Someone that grew their business through the Fawn Vendors program. They love the company, love the machines, and have had great success with the locating service that comes with the equipment. He was very helpful and offered to provide go-forward advice should I need it. So I'm beginning to feel more comfortable with the whole thing.

[dogcow]

listen if you are in sales, walk away from this deal.

the fact is you can get very nice USI equipment off craigs list for a fraction of what you are paying. I can get like new equipment right now , exact same set up for under $3,000 , even cheaper if i buy old stuff and have it refurbed by a local guy for a few hundred he will repaint, clean the shelves and put on new fronts, and repair any mech/val issues.

You are paying a premium for the "on location" part of "equipment on location" but if you are in sales finding locations should not be a problem. my suggestion if you want to succeed in this business. line up a location or two then buy some nice used equipment. if you cant find locations, hey big deal, your cost is $0.00 ...if these accts dont make what they claim, u are deep in the hole.

[beejaykc aka Munch A Bunch]

listen if you are in sales, walk away from this deal.

the fact is you can get very nice USI equipment off craigs list for a fraction of what you are paying. I can get like new equipment right now , exact same set up for under $3,000 , even cheaper if i buy old stuff and have it refurbed by a local guy for a few hundred he will repaint, clean the shelves and put on new fronts, and repair any mech/val issues.

You are paying a premium for the "on location" part of "equipment on location" but if you are in sales finding locations should not be a problem. my suggestion if you want to succeed in this business. line up a location or two then buy some nice used equipment. if you cant find locations, hey big deal, your cost is $0.00 ...if these accts dont make what they claim, u are deep in the hole.

Generally great advice. However, that growth strategy is a cash hog. Financing machines does indeed have a cost to it, and I understand the impact on location profitability.....but as a "get started" strategy - financing isn't always bad. There's also a bit of peace of mind in starting with brand new machines with 2 year warrantees. Yes, I'll have to learn the maintenance side, but I know in theory I shouldn't be walking into a mess.

I used to own an ATM route and had to do my own maintenance on those. Route management won't be a problem for me, nor will the sales eventually. But I want to learn to crawl and walk before I run.

[moondog]

Generally great advice. However, that growth strategy is a cash hog. Financing machines does indeed have a cost to it, and I understand the impact on location profitability.....but as a "get started" strategy - financing isn't always bad. There's also a bit of peace of mind in starting with brand new machines with 2 year warrantees. Yes, I'll have to learn the maintenance side, but I know in theory I shouldn't be walking into a mess.

I used to own an ATM route and had to do my own maintenance on those. Route management won't be a problem for me, nor will the sales eventually. But I want to learn to crawl and walk before I run.

Well, you're wise to ask these questions upfront and at least you're not dealing with a Biz Op (we get a lot of inquiries about those boondoggles). Our main concern here is that you're not getting into more debt than you can handle if the location doesn't pan out.

On a more positive note: The 3 wide snack machine could be a "blessing in disguise". Snack machines are tough for newcomers because you need about 5 of them to buy in bulk and avoid stales. With only 23 products you can buy the combo packs for now until you acquire more locations. Most of my machines hold 45 products and when I first started it was a real pain to find that many products that people would buy. With 11 machines on location, I now stock 80 different snack/candy items with each machine having it's own custom mix.

[dogcow]

yeah ok, ive heard this one before. you have already made up your mind and wont listen to anyone else despite the fact many people

gave u good advice here. no real reason to keep replying because you are just waiting to hope someone agrees with u its a good deal but honestly it probably is not.

you didnt mentino about the location? what kind of location is it? how many employees? how many shifts? did they tell you any income claims, remember that anyone selling these deals who makes income claims is violating federal law. if they gaurantee income or claim you will make $X.00 per month they are breaking the law, walk away.

the seller doesnt care about if you are succesful or not they dont care if u can make the payments or not. i think this is a poor scheme, get a $200 snack machine, learn how to clean it up, and locate it , repeat. i assure u, u can get a snack and drink machine for probably close to 3-4 months payments on this deal. as moondog said, acts that justify new equipment are rare as hens teeth. i have very old equipment for the most part, its 90% trouble free.

[davidvend1961]

i have purchased 3 combo futura machines 2 full size snack machines from wittern group.the only thing i can say is that it did get me started in this business.i have had nothing but problems with them compressors going out after 3 months sensors going out obsolete parts in the machines that that were delivered to a location brand new .i have been in this business for 2 years now in my opinion i would only buy refurbished equipment full size snack and soda machines from AP national crane AMS Dixie narco . again i have only been in business 2 years maybe somebody else has had better luck but i will not buy anymore .

David

Downey vending

[WillisNYC]

I have read this thread with increasing horror as I page down... I have been in this business since July 2009 and grown from 2 machines then to 400 now. Along the way I have met many other vendors. 9 out of 10 of them got started with a biz/op or an operation like yours. They ended up buying new equipment that landed on accounts that I, for the most part, would not touch with a ten foot pole. In short order they ended up with new equipment on crappy accounts that needed to be moved in short order. They also had a tremendous debt load that slowed down their growth for years as they tried to pay it off. In December I met a guy who owned a vending business. He got into the business buying new machines through a biz/op in 2009. 3 years later he still had a very small route that did not make enough revenue for him to quit his 'day' job. Most of his revenue has been used to pay off the debt load on his route and he only made it this far due to VERY hard work and perseverance. The biggest difference between his results and mine was our approach to the business.

I went out and did my own locating and then found used equipment to place on those locations. Many of the early soda machines were third party and did not cost me a cent. My average cost for a snack machine was $750-$1000. Most of my locations paid for themselves out of net profit in less than a year. Most of my early locations were not big revenue generators but they all cash flowed positive! I then used this revenue to buy more equipment and place them on more locations. I also had some capital in the bank that I used to buy my first route. But by the time of that purchase I had nearly a year of operating experience and the seller held paper for nearly half the route. If you read my thread in the revenue section, it fills in the details of how I grew my route over the last three years.

Now ask yourself, do you want to be the vendor I met, still struggling, working part time in vending and full time in another job three years from now because of bad early decisions that you made? Or do you want to be making a real living, working full time in vending , working really hard mind you, but the owner of a thriving profitable business like the one I have built? You said that you work in sales and know how to sell. Dammit! Go and do it for this business! I put my sales experience to work and it did wonders...this is the easiest sales job I have ever had! Buy good, used equipment, instead of the new equipment that you will be paying for, for a long, long time!

Of the many vendors I have met, most of them had a horror story that started with "I bought new equipment placed on location for me in this deal I bought into years ago." None of them have had the results I have had. Every one of them was set back tremendously with their early struggles mostly due to the debt load and bad locations they received in their very first deal or deals! For every one of them that I have met still in the business after 3 years or more, there must be dozens of failures who gave up, maybe hundreds of failures. I see the equipment from the failures listed for sale on craigslist all the time. They start out asking for the price they paid for their equipment and usually take 25 cents on the dollar or less as they try to get out from under a bad situation. YOU don't want to be that guy or girl, nor do I believe you want to still be struggling 3 years from now like my recently met vending owner acquaintance.

One of the biggest advantages I had was that I found this site and got good advice before I got into this business. There is lots of great information here, use it and prosper! Or....?

[beejaykc aka Munch A Bunch]

I have read this thread with increasing horror as I page down... I have been in this business since July 2009 and grown from 2 machines then to 400 now. Along the way I have met many other vendors. 9 out of 10 of them got started with a biz/op or an operation like yours. They ended up buying new equipment that landed on accounts that I, for the most part, would not touch with a ten foot pole. In short order they ended up with new equipment on crappy accounts that needed to be moved in short order. They also had a tremendous debt load that slowed down their growth for years as they tried to pay it off. In December I met a guy who owned a vending business. He got into the business buying new machines through a biz/op in 2009. 3 years later he still had a very small route that did not make enough revenue for him to quit his 'day' job. Most of his revenue has been used to pay off the debt load on his route and he only made it this far due to VERY hard work and perseverance. The biggest difference between his results and mine was our approach to the business.

I went out and did my own locating and then found used equipment to place on those locations. Many of the early soda machines were third party and did not cost me a cent. My average cost for a snack machine was $750-$1000. Most of my locations paid for themselves out of net profit in less than a year. Most of my early locations were not big revenue generators but they all cash flowed positive! I then used this revenue to buy more equipment and place them on more locations. I also had some capital in the bank that I used to buy my first route. But by the time of that purchase I had nearly a year of operating experience and the seller held paper for nearly half the route. If you read my thread in the revenue section, it fills in the details of how I grew my route over the last three years.

Now ask yourself, do you want to be the vendor I met, still struggling, working part time in vending and full time in another job three years from now because of bad early decisions that you made? Or do you want to be making a real living, working full time in vending , working really hard mind you, but the owner of a thriving profitable business like the one I have built? You said that you work in sales and know how to sell. Dammit! Go and do it for this business! I put my sales experience to work and it did wonders...this is the easiest sales job I have ever had! Buy good, used equipment, instead of the new equipment that you will be paying for, for a long, long time!

Of the many vendors I have met, most of them had a horror story that started with "I bought new equipment placed on location for me in this deal I bought into years ago." None of them have had the results I have had. Every one of them was set back tremendously with their early struggles mostly due to the debt load and bad locations they received in their very first deal or deals! For every one of them that I have met still in the business after 3 years or more, there must be dozens of failures who gave up, maybe hundreds of failures. I see the equipment from the failures listed for sale on craigslist all the time. They start out asking for the price they paid for their equipment and usually take 25 cents on the dollar or less as they try to get out from under a bad situation. YOU don't want to be that guy or girl, nor do I believe you want to still be struggling 3 years from now like my recently met vending owner acquaintance.

One of the biggest advantages I had was that I found this site and got good advice before I got into this business. There is lots of great information here, use it and prosper! Or....?

Thanks, Willis! Great insight. I'd love to hear more about your growth story, so I'll read your other postings.

[WillisNYC]

I have been thinking more about this thread after I posted my above missive. This whole business boils down to simple numbers. The average snack and soda account machine does $50/wk. If you have priced your items correctly, then your gross profit after COGs is $25/wk/machine. If you spend $2000 to put decent used soda and snack machines on an account then it will take you $2000/$50/week to tell you how long til your investment is paid off. That answer is 40 weeks if you land an 'average' account. Your results will vary based on how far off of the $50/wk average your real numbers are.

By contrast, assume that you take this 'nothing down' expensive deal and put your $9000 combo machine on the location. Let's assume that the locator does a 'good' job and he lands you a spot that enables this machine to take in $100/wk average. This will net you the same $50/wk that I use in my above example. However your payoff time is now $9000/$50/wk. That equals 180 weeks to pay for your investment. This calculation does not figure interest for your free money, nothing down deal. Assuming 5% interest which I think unlikely,but just for grins lets do the math. I used a standard mortgage calculator with $9000 amortized over 5 years at 5% interest. This resulted in a monthly payment of $169.84 and a total loan payoff of $10190. $10,190/$50/wk equals 203.8 weeks to pay off your equipment with profits from your 'free' expensive machine!

Is there any real comparison to be had by these two results? 40 weeks vs 203.8? What are the chances that your 'locator' will get your 'combo' placed where it makes $100/wk? I have 8 of them on various locations and the BEST one did $41/wk last year! (And it is a USI 'satellite' machine set up for the mechanics in a car dealership where there are 3 other full size machines! ) The best real 'combo' I have for comparison did $33/wk last year. The worst one does $7/wk and needs to be moved!

There are a lot of assumptions to be made thinking that using these new combos are the way to go....Think about how long it will take you to dig out of the hole you create if you buy 10 machines at $9000 apiece using financing similar to what I just described. I think you will be extremely lucky to get one account that does $100/wk for you. Your average for 10 placements will be below the industry standard of $50/wk/machine. Trust me, I have 400 machines out there and my average is FAR south of $50/machine/wk! I have lots of substandard hamburger type locations. I have very few filet mignon $100/wk/machine locations. For someone starting out, it is far easier to manage hamburger than filet mignon. Plus you won't have other people trying to take your hamburger locations. Filet mignon locations get lots of calls from salespeople. How would you feel if you were lucky enough to get the great $100/wk location, but some other vendor came in and placed full size equipment and took the account from you? Not only that, but how would it affect your bottom line? So you need to consider what type of business you want to be in in addition to how you will finance it!

Using the numbers from this example, you can easily see why people who buy expensive equipment when getting into this business either go broke and give up or have a very hard time digging themselves out of the hole that they create from the outset!

If nothing else, I hope that I have given you lots of food for thought when you make your decision about this business venture!

[beejaykc aka Munch A Bunch]

More great insight, Willis.

It boils down to the financing. Banks are no help for a startup.

I have begun to make some contacts to locate some machines before going further with the expensive route. We'll see how that goes.

I'll keep watching your posts. Your insight is valuable.

THANKS!