11perry Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Here we go. Years ago I built a bundled firewood vending machine. About 5 years ago I finished it. I had purchased a used Mars TRC 6800 H coin changer and a Mag Pro mag 30 sa bill validator, 110 volt. I set it up for a $5 vend, accepts $1 & $5 bills only, does not give change, does not accept coins. All had been going smoothly for about 4 1/2 years, until about 4 months ago. The bill validator stopped accepting bills. I tried to fix the issue to no avail. I sent the bill validator out for repair to Coin Co in MD. They said they replaced a harness and cleaned the sensors $125. I reinstalled and still no bills were being accepted. I then brought the validator to a repair facility in Milford CT. $25 for a bench test and they it was ok. Reinstalled and same issue. I checked and rechecked all wires and connections on the coin changer and bill validator as well as through out the machine. All seemed good. The bill validator still would not accept bills. I contacted a guy in RI who said he would take a look at it. I towed to him and after approx 1 1/2 hours he could not get working. He then tried one of his spare Mars bill validators and the machine vended as it should, however each time the bill validator accepted a bill the coin changer tried to dispense change, but the machine did work $80. He said he had a refurbished Mars VN 2500, which I picked up the following week $200. Installed the new bill validator and the machine worked except the issue of the coin changer dispensing coins each time a bill was accepted. I emailed the RI guy and he asked me to check if I knew what coins were being dispensed. At that point I was not sure. I left the machine as is for the last 6-7 weeks and it had been working along with the coin dispensing issue. I lost a lot of business over the last four months while trying to figure things out. Yesterday I checked the machine, it had sold 3 bundles and when I unclipped the cash box the red led was flashing 2x - disabled front system-. I been the only one ever attending the machine, so no switches or any thing else were touched or changed. I checked the wires and connections as well as the level of the coins in the coin columns. All checked out ok. I forgot to mention the coin changer sits on a shelf so in the last 6-7 weeks I have not had to add any coins to keep the levels up. I bought a refurbished Mars TCR 6800H coin changer today, from the place in Milford CT, $130, installed it and still led flashing 2x and not accepting bills.Price was set to correct price,$5 and #4 of options bar on(BA HI/LOW) all others off. I turned power off and set #5 on options bar to on all others off. I inserted a $5 bill , it was accepted and I completed a vend (still with the coin dispense issue). When I checked the led, steady red, thank GOD! I then inserted 5 $1 bills and completed a vend (still with the coin dispense issue). When I checked the led on bill validator flashing 2x and bill validator will not accept bills. I check what coins were dispensed and it appears each time the bill validator did accept a bill the coin changer dispensed 1 each, quarter,nickel and dime. This is where I am at any help greatly appreciated. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherlock Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Moved from "Bulk Vending" section to more appropriate area. You may not get much bill validator assistance in Bulk section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musser Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 What does the Bill aceeptor send its signal to? Has to be some sort of control board. Sounds like a problem with a chip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technivend Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 The bill validator will be sending the pulse to the changer which should be firing a self latching relay. The control board is part of the mech. Try this. Insert a bill, press the coin return lever. The amount of change returned is in essence what the coin mech sees as being inserted (barring any payout jams). What is paid back? If you are paying out change from the changer you may be going below the coin tube levels that are required to be sustained before the the changer inhibits the bill acceptor. You have a lot of information in one paragraph and it is hard to filter out what has been done when and how. So a few questions.. You changed the coin mech? Price has been set correctly? The quarter tube level is set to high? You replaced the validator? The switches have been set correctly? If you put in a bill and hit the coin return what is paid back for change? This will help us get closer to your issue. Of course, not needing or using the changer except for the vend circuit you could always boo boo fix it by unplugging the payout solenoids in the machine. You would still need coins in the tubes though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
11perry Posted January 31, 2013 Author Share Posted January 31, 2013 You changed the coin mech? Yes Price has been set correctly? Yes The quarter tube level is set to high? No . On the option bar only #4 BA HI/LOW had been on in the past. I believe #3 is .25 LOW/HI I'll change this setting and see what happens You replaced the validator? Yes The switches have been set correctly? Yes If you put in a bill and hit the coin return what is paid back for change? Once and if a bill is accepted the coin return automaticly dispenses 1 quarter 1 one nickel and 1 dime. Yesterday I set option bar to only #5(no escrow/esc return off) on , it vended twice then back to 2 flashes diabled front system. unplugging the payout solenoids in the machine? how is this done? John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technivend Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 if you have your 25 set to lo as soon as the sensor is uncovered it will inhibit the bill acceptor. I would fill the quarter tube up all the way and try to vend it. If it continues to vend (yet pays out coins) then I guess you could try the boo boo fix so the coins don't pay out. To do this you will need to remove all the coins. Remove the coin tube front. Then on the back of the changer remove the screws holding in the black base. The solenoids are attached to this base. You will see where they unplug once you get this apart. Remember, this is obviously not the proper fix and you do have something else wrong in the system that may show other symptoms as time progresses. The coin mech and validator work as a system and can be tested out of the machine as a unit. Based on your description it is in one of these units. If you could., take a picture of your switch settings on the validator and mech and post them. I would like to see if it is just something little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
11perry Posted January 31, 2013 Author Share Posted January 31, 2013 Here's a few pic's of machine. I do not have much room inside to work. I did not make the panel that holds the coin changer and bill validator hinged for easy access, my bad. It takes a little time to remove panel and hook it back up inside so I don't have to go out to insert a bill and back in to check things. I will do this today and try your suggestions tomorrow. The basic machine consists of 4 trays stacked vertically. Once $5 is insert and accepted, through a series if switches and relays, machine pushes out 1 bundle of wood to the bin.as the bundle falls from the tray it lands on to a tipping plate then rolls into the bin. I put a switch on the tipping plate to reset for next vend. Each tray holds 6 bundles. Once tray 1 is empty machine switches to tray 2 then 3 then 4. Tray consists of 6' screw drive with a paddle with its own 110 volt motor. When the tray vends its last bundle the paddle triggers a limit switch enableing the next tray to vend. If the machine is empty it will not accept bills. With the new coin changer and bill validator it did vend 2 consecutive bundles testerday. Price set correctly and options bar with only #5(no escrow/esc return off) on. After second bundle vended it would not accept bills and led flashing 2x - disabled front system. Here's a few pic's of machine. I do not have much room inside to work. I did not make the panel that holds the coin changer and bill validator hinged for easy access, my bad. It takes a little time to remove panel and hook it back up inside so I don't have to go out to insert a bill and back in to check things. I will do this today and try your suggestions tomorrow. The basic machine consists of 4 trays stacked vertically. Once $5 is insert and accepted, through a series if switches and relays, machine pushes out 1 bundle of wood to the bin.as the bundle falls from the tray it lands on to a tipping plate then rolls into the bin. I put a switch on the tipping plate to reset for next vend. Each tray holds 6 bundles. Once tray 1 is empty machine switches to tray 2 then 3 then 4. Tray consists of 6' screw drive with a paddle with its own 110 volt motor. When the tray vends its last bundle the paddle triggers a limit switch enableing the next tray to vend. If the machine is empty it will not accept bills. With the new coin changer and bill validator it did vend 2 consecutive bundles testerday. Price set correctly and options bar with only #5(no escrow/esc return off) on. After second bundle vended it would not accept bills and led flashing 2x - disabled front system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
11perry Posted February 1, 2013 Author Share Posted February 1, 2013 I will try your suggestions tomorrow and take and post pic's of settings on both units. Your help is GREATLY APPRECIATED. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
11perry Posted February 1, 2013 Author Share Posted February 1, 2013 Here are the setting pic's. Misc 764 is coin - Misc 759 is bill. The bill validator was set by the guy I purchased it from Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walta Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Will it work on coins? I would change the BA setting to Credit line 7 on and 8 off. But this will not fix your payout problem. The coin mech switch setting look good. I think you have a power problem when your machine try to run the voltage is dropping as the coin mech is going off line it is trying to refund what it can. Let’s measure the 120 vac going to the coin mech. I would set the vend price to .25 for testing once it is working then set it back to 5.00 Walta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogcow Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 does it have coin acceptance? i cant see in the picture why not just wire the BA to an accumulator and attach that to the relay and forget the coinmech altogether u can get a credit accumulator from happ controls if ur just using the coinmech for change i would just make it exact change required/bills only Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mainor5251 Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Off topic but seems like there would be more money in patenting and selling as a biz opp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
11perry Posted February 4, 2013 Author Share Posted February 4, 2013 wire the BA to an accumulator and attach that to the relay and forget the coinmech altogether u can get a credit accumulator from happ controls - How is this done? I would love to get rid of coin mech. if ur just using the coinmech for change i would just make it exact change required/bills - No change, bills only is how it had been opertaing. To set and test for .25 does the bill validator need to be connected? I tried both ways this am, no vend. Set to accept $1 - $5 bills only, no change. Had worked for approx 5 years this way not sure how to clear the disabled front system issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technivend Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Have you tried turning switch 4 off on the mech options. Depending on how you have this wired it may be wrong. Won't hurt to try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
11perry Posted February 4, 2013 Author Share Posted February 4, 2013 I am also not sure what interface to set? John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walta Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Does it take the coins yes or no If it does not take coins the circuit the tell the coin mech the machine is ready is where you need to look. Now tell us the truth who wired this machine. Walta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
11perry Posted February 5, 2013 Author Share Posted February 5, 2013 The machine takes bills only The truth - My brain was damaged due to illness (lyme disease) years ago. When I am clear I can do many things, when I am not clear I am lucky to get through the day. I cannot control when I am clear or not. I am presently going through a down time and am looking for some help because I cannot think straight. When I am having a clear time I'll be more than happy to explain more about the machine. One of the reasons I have trouble asking for help is because it's embarrissing. Every one happy? John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogcow Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 wire the BA to an accumulator and attach that to the relay and forget the coinmech altogether u can get a credit accumulator from happ controls - How is this done? I would love to get rid of coin mech. if ur just using the coinmech for change i would just make it exact change required/bills - No change, bills only is how it had been opertaing. To set and test for .25 does the bill validator need to be connected? I tried both ways this am, no vend. Set to accept $1 - $5 bills only, no change. Had worked for approx 5 years this way not sure how to clear the disabled front system issue. the mars validator sends a 5v pulse to the "coin line" on the harness, it either sends i pulse per $1 inserted , or 1 pulse per $0.25 inserted depending on the switches on the side. right now it is pulsing the mech and when it hits the price the mech pulses whatever relay you have sent to make the machine vend. so you should go on the happ website and buy one of these http://na.suzohapp.com/accessories/42113810.htm this will allow you to connect the BA to it , set the price on the accumulator and have the BA pulse the accumulator and the accumulator will pulse the relay on your machine. this will get rid of the coinmech completely, hope this helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walta Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 I am trying to diagnose your problem. If we can get it to work on coins, that will narrow down the problem to the BA and or its harness. If it will not take coins the problem is likely in the enable circuits of the machine. If it takes coins but does not vend the problem is in the machines vend circuit. Walta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moondog Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 The machine takes bills only The truth - My brain was damaged due to illness (lyme disease) years ago. When I am clear I can do many things, when I am not clear I am lucky to get through the day. I cannot control when I am clear or not. I am presently going through a down time and am looking for some help because I cannot think straight. When I am having a clear time I'll be more than happy to explain more about the machine. One of the reasons I have trouble asking for help is because it's embarrissing. Every one happy? John John, You can send any member a private message, at your own pace, if you're uncomfortable about posting here. Click on the members name and find "send a message" in the upper right hand side of their profile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
11perry Posted February 6, 2013 Author Share Posted February 6, 2013 I want to thank everyone for their help and patience.. I am trying all suggestions. Looks like the credit accumulator is the way to go. I did contact Happ via email, waiting to hear back. I am trying to line up a heated garage to put the machine in. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
11perry Posted February 6, 2013 Author Share Posted February 6, 2013 This am I made up a jumper push button switch for the 8 pin power plug in. #1 to switch, #3 to switch, #1 to #7.Pushed the button and had a vend. Allso woundering if a x 10 power flash interface could be used as credit accumulator? John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technivend Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 To many cooks on this one. Take one persons advice and work through it that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thekobun Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Bunches of help never hurt. Haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tafelice Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 Thanks for sharing 11perry. Hope you work it out in the forum and not have to go PM because I find this fascinating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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