Golfdogs Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 I don't do repairs on soda machines. I have an 8 select DN with a control board. The compressor keeps freezing up. My repairman has replaced the compressor and the thermostat (3x). Still the same problem. I have cleaned and lubed the door seal. Any advice? This account is seasonal. They have been good about what has been going on. I feel patience is starting to run thin. But with their busy season approaching, I want to get this resolved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snack dude Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 I don't do repairs on soda machines. I have an 8 select DN with a control board. The compressor keeps freezing up. My repairman has replaced the compressor and the thermostat (3x). Still the same problem. I have cleaned and lubed the door seal. Any advice? This account is seasonal. They have been good about what has been going on. I feel patience is starting to run thin. But with their busy season approaching, I want to get this resolved. I know this maybe stupid but I have to ask, " Is the fan behind the condenser working and drawing air thru the condenser" ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrCorey Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 If you cant repair and dont have a tech always have backup units, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfdogs Posted March 24, 2013 Author Share Posted March 24, 2013 I know this maybe stupid but I have to ask, " Is the fan behind the condenser working and drawing air thru the condenser" ? yes, the fan is working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moondog Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 Golfdogs, Try posting the model of your Dixie and maybe one of the repair guys will see this post. I've only got a couple of Dixies, but as a "shot in the dark" it may have something to do with your control board (don't quote me on this) given that you've pretty much exhausted the likely scenarios. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZVendor Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 Golfdogs, the cause of a freezing evaporator can vary, Low freon is the most common cause but other causes can be a slow or non-functioning evaporator fan (inside the cabinet and should run always), bad - incorrect - incorrectly set thermostat, an air leak at door seal - delivery port - drain hose, cabinet not draining water out, or a missing/loose evaporator shroud. One thing we need to know is how fast does it ice up and how much of the evaporator is iced. What was the exact symptom that required replacement of the cooling deck? Going off what you have told us, it is entirely possible that the "new" compressor is low on freon. I also can't imagine why the thermostat was changed 3 times unless they were all "used" and therefore suspect thermostats. You can have two styles of Dixie Narco thermostats, one is inserted into a hollow tube running behind the evaporator that is open on the right side of the evaporator. The capillary tube of the thermostat comes folded over twice from the factory (don't fold a cap tube yourself) and is inserted into the tube several inches behind the evaporator. The second style is a clip-in style. There would be a short 1" slot in the rear duct behind and to the right of the right side of the evaporator kind of high up on the duct facing you, but easy to see with a light. The capillary tube of this thermostat style has a hook formed in the end of the tube. The hook is slid into the slot cut into the rear air duct simply to hold it in place. Both styles of thermostat should be set to 3 1/2 on the dial. You have to turn the dial counterclockwise until the compressor and condenser fan turn off. Mark this as zero, then turn the dial clockwise to the 3 1/2 mark or 3:30 position base on zero being 12:00. This will give you a proper temperature setting around 40 degrees when the compressor shuts off. No other adjustment is needed unless you are at a high altitude. A proper freon charge in the compressor (measured with NO ICE on the evaporator) is between 18 - 20 lbs. on the low side of the system while it's running, measured with a proper gauge set. An overcharged or especially undercharged unit will ice the evaporator. Do you have high humidity in your area or in the environment the machine is in? If so you will have extra condensation on the evaporator. If the thermostat is faulty and not turning off long enough for the moisture to run off the evaporator, then when the compressor turns on again it can cause the moisture to freeze on the evaportator. This is called short cycling and requires a new thermostat. Does the cabinet drain all moisture out? You should not have any standing water in the cabinet. This can be caused by a plugged drain hose or cabinet not level. This standing water then creates a high humidity environment that will freeze the evaporator. Check for air leaks. Is the bottom edge of the inner door gasket properly attached to the door - they get torn loose. Are there any missing chunks of door gasket? Is the delivery flap door still on the machine? Is the drain hose attached under the cabinet? You said you lubed the door gasket - is it folded over on the hinge side (shouldn't be)? Does the lube transfer to the cabinet facing edge so you know the gasket actually touches the cabinet? Is the evaporator shroud properly installed on the top of the evaporator? The shroud is almost as wide as the cabinet, hooks on the air duct behind the evaporator and then is clipped to the evaporator on both front corners, laying on top of it. This completes the air box so air is only pulled through the front of the evaporator. You could also have a slow evaporator fan. This will sound like it's running but not blow much air up into the cabinet or pull much air through the evaporator (test with a small piece of paper to see if it pulls against the evaporator). Let us know if you need more help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walta Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 When you say he has replaced the “compressor” did he literally replace just the compressor or more likely did he swap the refrigeration deck? Were the replacement decks acquired from a trusted source? Did they attempt to repair your deck and return it to you? I will repeat a few of AZVendor coments . Is the flap door present and working? Are both the inside and outside fans running? If you turn the thermostat all the way to the counter clock wise does the compressor stop running? Walta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfdogs Posted March 24, 2013 Author Share Posted March 24, 2013 I've got a picture of the control board that I can't post from my phone. I'll try later on the desktop. This machine I bought as part of a route last year. No tag on the door, so I don't have an exact model. It has Dale Earnhardt on the front. That ought to narrow it down! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donut Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 AZVendor said it all An easy way to check the door seal is by putting a small amount of Vaseline (or something similar) on the rubber, then locking the door tight.... open the door and check to see if the Vaseline is on the machine edge.... If you find somewhere where the Vaseline is not, that might be an indicator of an air leak... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfdogs Posted March 25, 2013 Author Share Posted March 25, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfdogs Posted March 25, 2013 Author Share Posted March 25, 2013 I can't figure out how to attach a photo. I swear I have some technical knowledge! Just frustrating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfdogs Posted March 25, 2013 Author Share Posted March 25, 2013 I posted a photo of the control board in the gallery section. I am going to take all of your good advice to the machine tomorrow where I will meet the repair guy. Hopefully, I can get this resolved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walta Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Looks like a Dixie SIID board. On that machine the board does not control the cooling system. Walta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfdogs Posted March 25, 2013 Author Share Posted March 25, 2013 Ok, I met the repairman out at the machine. We checked the whole system. Door flap, door seal, freon, fans, etc. replaced the temp. Control...brand new, right out of the box. Moved the sensor behind the evaporater coil. The thermostat control still does not shut the unit off. Turned the dial to the noon position and it continues to run. Any suggestions? This is a DN 501e, btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donut Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Turn the temp control to off and feel the compressor on the back of the machine.... if it's still running, you have some sort of wiring problem I think in the harness where the compressor plugs in. If you turn the temp control to "off" the only thing still running should be the fan. The fan to the unit should always be on; however, the compressor will come on and go off as the temperature inside changes.... You should be able to tell the difference when the compressor actually comes on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walta Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Please answers my 5 questions 1 When you say he has replaced the “compressor” did he literally replace just the compressor or more likely did he swap the refrigeration deck? 2 Were the replacement decks acquired from a trusted source? 3 Did they attempt to repair your deck and return it to you? 4 Are both the inside and outside fans running? 5 If you turn the thermostat all the way to the counter clock wise does the compressor stop running? If all he did today was replace the thermostat for the 4 time it is very unlikely you had 3 bad thermostats. Walta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZVendor Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 If turning off the thermostat won't turn the compressor and condenser fan off, then you have wiring problem or a bad thermostat. Ohm out the thermostat (with no wires attached to it) and see if you have a closed circuit in the thermostat until it is turned off, at which time you should have an open circuit across the two terminals. Having replaced the thermostat 3 times and this one ohms out properly, I believe you probably have a problem in the main power harness of the machine, probably failed wiring in the power block where the compressor plugs in. You may have to replace the main harness. This is where the power cord comes into the power block at the lower left corner of the cabinet. The harness includes the power cord, power block where compressor plugs in, power leads to the evaporator fan, leads to the thermostat and a round 2-pin plug that powers the door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfdogs Posted March 25, 2013 Author Share Posted March 25, 2013 Please answers my 5 questions 1 When you say he has replaced the “compressor” did he literally replace just the compressor or more likely did he swap the refrigeration deck? 2 Were the replacement decks acquired from a trusted source? 3 Did they attempt to repair your deck and return it to you? 4 Are both the inside and outside fans running? 5 If you turn the thermostat all the way to the counter clock wise does the compressor stop running? If all he did today was replace the thermostat for the 4 time it is very unlikely you had 3 bad thermostats. Walta 1 Refridgeration deck2 unsure of where he got it 3 no 4 yes 5 no I concur on the bad thermostats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfdogs Posted March 25, 2013 Author Share Posted March 25, 2013 If turning off the thermostat won't turn the compressor and condenser fan off, then you have wiring problem or a bad thermostat. Ohm out the thermostat (with no wires attached to it) and see if you have a closed circuit in the thermostat until it is turned off, at which time you should have an open circuit across the two terminals. Having replaced the thermostat 3 times and this one ohms out properly, I believe you probably have a problem in the main power harness of the machine, probably failed wiring in the power block where the compressor plugs in. You may have to replace the main harness. This is where the power cord comes into the power block at the lower left corner of the cabinet. The harness includes the power cord, power block where compressor plugs in, power leads to the evaporator fan, leads to the thermostat and a round 2-pin plug that powers the door. I will pass this info on to my guy. I read him your previous post and he said you know what you are talking about! I spent about an hour and a half with him today. He seems very knowledgeable. He worked for a large vending co for 8 years and has been through DN Refridgeration training, etc. He explained a lot about drink machines to me. This machine will not get the best of me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walta Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 If you turn the thermostat to off and the compressor still runs it is wired wrong. My problem is I can’t imagine how it could get messed up as it is all inside molded rubber. Are you sure the compressor and outside fan are not turning off. The inside fan should never turn off. Try unplugging the wires to the thermostat and see if the compressor stops. A few years ago there was a service bulletin on this model the thermostat mounting screws were too long and would short the thermostat and keep the compressor running. Walta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donut Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 I wonder if the leads that plug into the thermostat control are switched around with the fan leads... If I recall correctly (I'm at work right now so I can't look at a machine right now) the connectors on the thermostat itself are flat male connectors, and there is another set of male/female flat connectors that go to something else... (Offhand, I don't think they go to the fan, because I think those are usually connected with a wire nut directly to the power.) I wonder if the "other set" of male/female connectors were connected to the thermostat and vice-versa when the new compressor deck was put in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZVendor Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 As Donut says, I was running service calls today and was thinking about this and also thought that maybe the tech you used disconnected the evaporator fan leads and the thermostat leads (I don't know why he would have done this) and then may have mixed them up when reconnecting them. As Walta says, a very long screw could short the two connectors on the thermostat, but be careful if this happened, because the entire thermostat and inside of the cabinet may be live with 110V. I'm leaning toward a mixup of the power between the evap fan and thermostat. Are you sure this guy is so smart? One compressor and 4 thermostats and it's not fixed? Also I was still wondering what the problem was with the original compressor and did you pay for a new or rebuilt unit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfdogs Posted March 26, 2013 Author Share Posted March 26, 2013 As Donut says, I was running service calls today and was thinking about this and also thought that maybe the tech you used disconnected the evaporator fan leads and the thermostat leads (I don't know why he would have done this) and then may have mixed them up when reconnecting them. As Walta says, a very long screw could short the two connectors on the thermostat, but be careful if this happened, because the entire thermostat and inside of the cabinet may be live with 110V. I'm leaning toward a mixup of the power between the evap fan and thermostat. Are you sure this guy is so smart? One compressor and 4 thermostats and it's not fixed? Also I was still wondering what the problem was with the original compressor and did you pay for a new or rebuilt unit? I've paid him a grand total of $50. He has a Pepsi repair tech meeting him at the location in the am. He is being a stand up guy, and if he screwed up, he will let me know. I'll keep you updated and thanks for all the advice. It is nice to know I've got someplace to turn to when needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZVendor Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 I'm glad you've only paid $50 so far, especially since he seems to be in "learning mode". I'm not saying I don't get stumped sometimes, and I learn something new all the time, but not over 4 or 5 trips to the machine. I'm glad he's treating you right. Please let us know what the result is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfdogs Posted March 26, 2013 Author Share Posted March 26, 2013 The Pepsi guy said the universal temperature control that was installed is the problem. They installed a much more expensive temp controller. We wait and see... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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