mojorhino Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 I have a friend that has a DN 320 that intermittently won't vend cans from column 8. Front View Label Link to the manual: http://www.vendingmix.com/sites/default/files/dixie-narco-pre-series-90-service-manual.pdf Motors The cans appear to be getting stuck & it seems to be doing it intermittently. Sometimes it will vend 12 or more cans in a row without getting stuck & sometimes it will only vend 2 or three before getting stuck. When it gets stuck you can hear the motor humming. We can get it to unstuck by pressing the little lever that releases the tension at which point the can drops. Then we repeat the process then after a few to several more cans it gets stuck again. Here are pictures of the column that is not working. Column 8 top view Column 8 underside view Here is a picture of a column that is working Column 2 top view Column 2 underside view The guy who owns the machine has a motor on order but I'm not totally convinced that is the fix. Any one have any suggestions as to what could be causing column 8 to get stuck intermittently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CajunCandy Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Motor and brake is gummed up from pop spilling on them. So you can either clean them or swap out motor he is receiving, I would also change out switches for the simple reason of pop getting in them and then you have another problem. mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donut Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 I agree. Clean it off with a q-tip and some water or Windex.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryChris Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Yeah I think the motor/brake IS the problem. Changing it out is the easiest thing to do if you don't want to mess around with trying to clean it up. If it were me, I would just replace the motor if I knew it had been through a lot of vends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZVendor Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 Two issues I can see from your photos: The column numbered 8 is actually number 4 and the column numbered 4 is actually number 8. Just an FYI and you should swap the stickers. The columns you took photos of don't have the black plastic side shims in place. There should be one shim on each side of each wide column. This will cause problems such as dropping multiple cans, but could also cause a jam. Perhaps I'm wrong on the black shims as this appears to be a model without rear depth adjusters, meaning you have shorter than normal oscillator bars and rotors. But I still think this model should have the side shims. What position is the can in that jams? Is it the back can? Is it jammed with the rear of the can up at an angle? I really think installing the proper shims will solve the problem. While you're looking at it you should also make sure there are white shims on the left of each narrow column. If those are missing you will jam cans and each jam will successively twist the rotor more and more until it jams due to the bent rotor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorris1953 Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 AZ took my thunder....... He is 100% correct........... I would add if the vendor isn't on location take and spray down motors with some hot soapy water. I use greased lighting from lowes. Let it set for a few minutes and then wash it off. Leave door open and let it sit for a day to dry out. Best way is to take it to car wash and pressure wash it making sure to get those motors good. Just make sure you let it dry out good. It will do funny things if it isn't dry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorris1953 Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 Many years ago they changed the cans. Called them 202 cans. They made the bottom of the can smaller. What happened was when the single columns got down to about six cans it would jam. We always put bottoms facing out so you can see the dates without having to unload the whole machine. The sold out paddle would get stuck in the bottom of the can when it vends because when the rotor comes around on a D/N it lifts the column of pop a 1/4". Then it couldn't drop straight down. It will tip and then gets caught jamming the can. Pepsi didn't believe me like always and so they hired temp help and set up several machines in shop. These guys spent a week in there just vending cans to see if I was right. LMAO The fix once again Pepsi didn't believe me as usual. Unplug vendor! Take motor cover off and take a really long screw driver and put it between the soldout cover and motor cover. You might want to take the soldout cover off also. Place the tip (just on the single columns doubles are ok) of the screw driver about the middle of the thin part of the paddle and bend it towards the motor cover about a inch. You want that paddle facing down not out. You will most likely have to move the back spacer forward after doing this. Put a few cans in and check to see if it vends. If you have bent the paddle to far the tab that holds the soldout switches won't sit on top of both switches and when you try to vend it the sold out light will come on and won't vend. If this happens hold down paddle and bend the tab down on both sold out switches. You can now load the cans with tops in so you can see the date. I don't think that 320 uses any side shims on the double columns. It was designed to vend cans or 10 oz bottles both are same size in diameter. It also has no back spacer. It is basicly a 7 select coke so columns 1 & 2 will vend on # 1 button. Motor is coasting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorris1953 Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 Won't let me edit again above. When adjusting tap on sold out push down on paddle and bend sold out tap upwards not down. Sorry haven't had to do this for a very long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojorhino Posted October 2, 2013 Author Share Posted October 2, 2013 I agree. Clean it off with a q-tip and some water or Windex.... They had a bottle of Windex so I sprayed it on the metal part that spins then tested it with a pocket knife several times then repeated the process till it looked clean. After that I loaded it back up & tried it & worked for close to 30 cans. I told them to call me if it started doing it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojorhino Posted October 2, 2013 Author Share Posted October 2, 2013 Two issues I can see from your photos: The column numbered 8 is actually number 4 and the column numbered 4 is actually number 8. Just an FYI and you should swap the stickers. The columns you took photos of don't have the black plastic side shims in place. There should be one shim on each side of each wide column. This will cause problems such as dropping multiple cans, but could also cause a jam. Perhaps I'm wrong on the black shims as this appears to be a model without rear depth adjusters, meaning you have shorter than normal oscillator bars and rotors. But I still think this model should have the side shims. What position is the can in that jams? Is it the back can? Is it jammed with the rear of the can up at an angle? I really think installing the proper shims will solve the problem. While you're looking at it you should also make sure there are white shims on the left of each narrow column. If those are missing you will jam cans and each jam will successively twist the rotor more and more until it jams due to the bent rotor. The single columns had shims but none of the dual columns did.... Missing shims was the first thing I thought too, however they said that its been working fine for years without shims in the dual columns. I just picked up that DN 276 & it had shims in the double columns so how would I tell for sure weather it needed shims or not? The manual is included in my original post & I didn't see anything in it about shims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorris1953 Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 The single columns had shims but none of the dual columns did.... Missing shims was the first thing I thought too, however they said that its been working fine for years without shims in the dual columns. I just picked up that DN 276 & it had shims in the double columns so how would I tell for sure weather it needed shims or not? The manual is included in my original post & I didn't see anything in it about shims. Without shims on double columns the cans would double vend or just fall through if it were supposed to have shims. I can't imagine the shims missing from all the double columns so I would have to say there are none. Was the 276 a E model? Or maybe a shimless stack? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZVendor Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 It's very possible that the machines built without rear spacers don't require side shims as rmorris stated, but if you do have rear spacers in your machine you will need the black shims in the wide columns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CajunCandy Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 The RC Cola DN 180 I have is of the same family and it does not have any shims in it, but it does have the movable back spacers in it, it is a 80's model. mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZVendor Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 I remember when I ran a couple of DN180's they had thin metal "shims" on the sides of each wide column, but they were really only there to provide a piece of spring metal curved out into the column to catch cans as an anti-theft device. Those columns would have vended just fine without these metal "shims" as they were just thin metal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojorhino Posted October 15, 2013 Author Share Posted October 15, 2013 Update They called me & it has been doing much better but it still getting stuck occastionally. . . . . . So I have beem thinking about what I could put on the motor (since the vibe I've been getting from everyone is to avoid WD-40) to make it backspin more freely because that is what appears to be preventing the motor from working properly resulting in the cans getting stuck. I came up with an idea when one of my daughters friends came over to ride bikes the other day. Their chain was all rusted from having been left out side, so I went into the garage to get some chain lube & put several drops on the on the chain & cranked the petals several times & within a few minutes the chain was working & looking like new again. Here is what I used http://www.whitelightningco.com/products/index.htm The site says that is self cleaning meaning that any dirt or residue build up is supposed to flake off becaise its wax based. I am going to take another look at the machine later on this afternoon & put couple of drops on the motor to see if it fixes the problem. Any of you repair techs out ther have any thoughts or opinions on using this stuff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZVendor Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 NO NO NO! The worst thing you could use is a lubricant that has wax in it. It will actually harden in the cold temperatures. You are wrong that you want the motor to "backspin." That is not a normal part of the motor's motion. The only time it should run backwards is with power removed, a product jammed against the rotor or oscillator bar and then you press the motor brake to release pressure and the motor will rotate backwards. This then removes pressure from the jammed product so you can remove it. It sounds like your motor is turning properly, but just that your products get stuck in a wide column. Try sanding the inside surfaces of the stacks down next to the oscillator bars with fine sandpaper or emery paper to remove all the corrosion that may have accumulated. The surfaces might be real rough and impeding the cans from easily sliding out. You could also have a bent stack wall. I have seen this in old machines with tens of thousands of vends on them or a machine that might have been moved loaded with product. The metal stack walls can be bent slightly, probably not enough to actually see a bend, but I have actually seen a bent side wall myself. This could be the problem, especially if it's only on one side of one column. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojorhino Posted October 16, 2013 Author Share Posted October 16, 2013 I waited for someone to post a reply before I went back to the machine & I did not put any white lightning on the motor. I have a few questions though. 1. Is the thing in the picture that my finger is on the break? 2. Does the motor need any type of lubricant ever to function properly? 3. If so what do you recommend? From my previous question about wether the double columns need shims or not, I found out the answer on the metal piece that covered the motors. It says shims & rear guides are not required when vending 12 oz. cans. I wasnt looking there initially because every time I took it off, I had leaned it up against something (words facing backwards) & did not see the instructions. I tried cleaning the side walls & oscilator bar as you had mentioned but as I was looking at them they just did not seem that dirty. While doing that I called one of the local Pepsi repair techs & asked him what he thought it could be & he said that the oscilator bar could be bent. We got to talking about the possibilities of what it could be & he said that it had to be 1 of three things. 1. Bent ocilator bar 2. Bent stackwall 3. Motor going out. So I got to thinking about how I could narrow the list down. . . . . . So here is what I did. I swapped the last two motors (moved the one labeled 8 to 3 & vice versa). Then I tested # 8 & It worked fine 10 times in a row., then I tested # 3 & it got stuck repeatedly after a couple to a few vends. So it appears to be the motor. So now my question is where do they get a replacement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZVendor Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Yes, your finger is on the brake actuator. It's good that you tried swapping the motors to narrow the problem down. Since it sounds like you need a motor, I can ship you one to replace it with. Send me a PM if you want one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojorhino Posted October 16, 2013 Author Share Posted October 16, 2013 I will let you know on the motor tomorrow. Regarding the motors in general, do they ever need any kind of lubricant or preventative maintenance & if so what do you recommend? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZVendor Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 No, there is no lubricants needed on the motors. Any lubes usually gum up in cold temperatures. The motors were designed with no lubrication intended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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