RFVending Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Hi all, I have a National 147 snack machine that I am trying to replace the validator in. It had an old VFM unit in it and I am trying to install a newer VN 2501 into it. I have the small harness that goes with it that connects directly to the 9 pin plug. I have everything installed and hooked up, but it will not credit any $1's. It will accept them and stack them no problem but the screen only displays "Ready" I tried another 2501 and got the same results. I've also checked the configuration and set it to just about everything between Pulse Validator and Serial Validator and nothing has made any difference. I've changed the switches on the validator itself and now have all of them set to off but still no luck. Any one have any suggestions on what to do or try next? I guess I may have to try the old VFM and see if it will credit but it will hardly accept any bills. Thanks for any help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZVendor Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 If you are only using the 9 pin connector from the machine to the validator, meaning that you don't have an 18 pin communication connector to plug in to the validator, then your machine must be set on PULSE VALIDATOR and on the validator you must turn switch 7 off and 8 on. If you do have both the 9 pin and 18 pin black connector to the validator then your machine must be set on SERIAL VALIDATOR and the validator switches must be 7 off and 8 on. According to MEI this validator must be set to Credit Line interface for either Pulse or Serial interface to the machine. You will only get a $1 credit with the Pulse interface and the machine should accept a $5 credit when using the Serial interface. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFVending Posted October 22, 2014 Author Share Posted October 22, 2014 Thanks for that. With the machine set to PULSE and the Validator set to 7 off and 8 on it gives me the 2 LED blink for disabled. Coin tubes are not all the way full, but do have coins in them and it says Ready on the screen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cvending Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 If both VN 2500's don't give credit, and you believe they are both good validators, try another harness that goes from side of validator to the nine pin connection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZVendor Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 In some installations you might need to make two or three purchases with coins to help the machine recognize that it has enough coins for changemaking, thus enabling the validator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryChris Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 This machine will disable the validator when the door is open. You need to push the door switch in and you should see a solid light showing normal operation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFVending Posted October 22, 2014 Author Share Posted October 22, 2014 I should have mentioned the door switch. I have held it, it makes no difference. It will accept coins and make purchases with it open or closed. When it is closed however it will disable the menu buttons for changing prices so I know it works. I have made many purchases but still 2 LED blinks. Tubes are roughly half full. Only thing I haven't done is filled them up completely but I don't really see that making a difference but I'm going there next. I have tried two different 2501's with two different 9 pin connectors. Exact same result on both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZVendor Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Are you using a validator harness from the machine that only has a 9 pin connector on it? Was the VFM only connected by the 9 pin or was there a black 18 pin connector plugged into the VFM board? Remember that the 18 pin might still be hanging up where the remote VFM box was located. If there's one still hanging there loose then it also must be plugged into the MEI validator and the machine will then need to be set up for SERIAL VALIDATOR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFVending Posted October 22, 2014 Author Share Posted October 22, 2014 Only thing visible is the 9 pin, and then the 4 pin & 6 Pin for hooking up a Maka validator. All of these are connected into one harness which goes back to the board. Guess I will go pull it apart and make sure it doesn't have the second 18 pin hanging around back there somewhere. But everything is all zip tied up nicely like it hasn't been messed with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFVending Posted October 22, 2014 Author Share Posted October 22, 2014 Alright no other connectors. Just the three I mentioned previously. I did solve the two LED blink problem though by changing the #4 switch to accept $1 bills. However it still does not register the credit after stacking the bill with #7 off, 8 on, and set to PLUSE. These are the connectors: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZVendor Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 You can try the short and long pulse settings on the validator but they aren't recommended by National so it's doubtful they will work. You might do as cvending suggested and use a different power pigtail on the lower validator pins. Also, inspect your pins very carefully to see if any have been bent over. There should be only 2 blank spots in the validator pin opening. If you see 3 blanks then a pin is bent over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feral Vending Mechanic Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Doesn't the 147 need the data part of the harness, too? Sorry, it's been a while since I worked on a 147. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZVendor Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 The 147 can be programmed for either Pulse or Serial validators and each protocol requires a specific harness. Pulse uses the 9 pin pulse harness and Serial uses the serial harness with 9 pin and 18 pin connectors. The serial harness won't work as pulse if only the 9 pin is connected because the 9 pin connector on a serial harness doesn't include a validator enable line which the pulse-only harness has. Additionally, the pulse harness is for $1 only while the serial harness allows for both $1 and $5 acceptance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFVending Posted October 23, 2014 Author Share Posted October 23, 2014 You might do as cvending suggested and use a different power pigtail on the lower validator pins. Also, inspect your pins very carefully to see if any have been bent over. There should be only 2 blank spots in the validator pin opening. If you see 3 blanks then a pin is bent over. That's all I have is the 9 pin to the small power side with the 2 blank outs. Whatever it is it's apparently not right because it doesn't work. The VFM I removed didn't have any other connectors other than just plugging straight into the 9 Pin. So either I need something additional that I don't have or I'm going to have to go with a different setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZVendor Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 As I said, you need to remove the validator and inspect the pin header inside the validator to be certain none of the pins are bent over. You might also want to confirm that both of your validators are good by trying them in another machine, preferably a single price machine that uses only the 9 pin connector so that you can verify the enable line through the 9 pin connector, or you need to have them bench tested. If you want to try connecting this with a serial harness then I can send you one. Just PM me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFVending Posted October 23, 2014 Author Share Posted October 23, 2014 All the pins are good. I know they worked when they showed up at my shop. I am going to double check them in another machine tomorrow. I don't have another here currently to test it in. It appears D&S has the serial cable or direct from National as part 1471073 I think. But I may check with you in the next day or so just out of simplicity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryChris Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 I have never seen a 145 with a VFM in it. All of mine either had MAKA's or no validator at all. I use the MAKA-to-Mars-VN harness to connect directly to the board-to-MAKA harness. This has worked every time for me. Here is my question... what was wrong with the VFM? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZVendor Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Chris, his machine is a 147... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryChris Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Chris, his machine is a 147... Whoops!!! I don't know how I misread that!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFVending Posted November 11, 2014 Author Share Posted November 11, 2014 Alright, so I'm back on this project. I have tried a Mars 2501 using both the 9 Pin and the Maka to Mars connector using the other 4 pin and 6 pin connectors. Then tired a BA30B using the 4 pin and 6 pin into the BA30B and still a no go. I have had the machine set to both Pulse and Serial and neither will recognize the $1 credit when the bill is stacked. Any other suggestions I might try or does it appear something on the computer board is shot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZVendor Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 Set the machine to Pulse interface and then set the 2501 switches to Credit Line. According to MEI that's how is should work when you use only the 9 pin connector. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFVending Posted November 11, 2014 Author Share Posted November 11, 2014 That's the exact setup I just tried again and it will stack the bill and continue to look at me with only Ready on the display. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZVendor Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 Then you probably need to get a proper harness for it instead of using the old Maka and the conversion pigtail. Most of the time this will work but some 147's have a real hard time when upgrading the validators for some reason. If you do that then I would get the serial harness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walta Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Did you personally ever see this machine give credit for a bill? I wonder if it is possible that you have someone’s pile of old parts? Maybe you have a serial Interface board and a pulse harness. At this point try to find a working 147 and put all the part from your problem machine in it one at a time until it stops working Walt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFVending Posted November 24, 2014 Author Share Posted November 24, 2014 Did you personally ever see this machine give credit for a bill? I wonder if it is possible that you have someone’s pile of old parts? Maybe you have a serial Interface board and a pulse harness. At this point try to find a working 147 and put all the part from your problem machine in it one at a time until it stops working Walt I have not seen it work. I purchased it with a bad validator... which is bad, but the machine won't recognize the bill credit with any good working validator. For what I paid for it though, it isn't much of a concern. I'm going to try a Mars serial cable for it as a last step. If that doesn't work then I think I'll just put an upgrade kit in it and go MDB and be done with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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