Post your political rants here

[BradMillner46]

10 hours ago, musser said:

I don't see that at all. If people do wake up to a giant lie (they will) there will be a lot of noise but no real action. They (the right) will end up just like the left. The left was convinced the Obama would change the world, he didn't, he couldn't. The left is all pouty and whiney now. Well, I think when its all played out the right will also end up all pouty and whiney. This is what has always happened. The illusion of empowerment while we slowly decline into servitude. A subtle manipulation of economic and political 'freedoms" keeps the peoples hopes up, chasing shamans. While the real agenda progresses in the background.

Ok, maybe you think I've finally went all daft. Consider this: what are the people at this site doing? They are exchanging ideas and information to better enable them to create personal wealth. How do you influence a location to let you install machines? All sorts of conversation. And this is all about gumballs, pinballs, and snacks. And for most, just part time a few bucks along the way.

What do you think the richest 10 people in the world do? What do the top 25 or 100 richest do? Do you really think they done talk to each other? What do they talk about? The same thing we are here. How to make more money. How to lower costs. How to control the market. The problem is all great wealth comes from all the other people that don't have it. We are it.

You have a right to your own opinion musser but I believe there's very logical reason to believe that real progress towards creating a better world is happening right now and there are some very logical reasons I could give to support this claim. I'm not going to live my life in fear of doomsday.  I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this point but I'm glad you and I agree on other points.

[tnycman]

You have a right to your own opinion musser but I believe there's very logical reason to believe that real progress towards creating a better world is happening right now and there are some very logical reasons I could give to support this claim. I'm not going to live my life in fear of doomsday.  I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this point but I'm glad you and I agree on other points.

Would you mind sharing where the real progress is happening and who i leading the efforts?

I'd very interested to learn about, at it seems I might be misinformed to think that we're going backwards..

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[BradMillner46]

2 hours ago, tnycman said:

Would you mind sharing where the real progress is happening and who i leading the efforts?

I'd very interested to learn about, at it seems I might be misinformed to think that we're going backwards..

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That's an excellent question man, so let me sum the reasons why I believe there is very LOGICAL reason to have this perspective.....

First off, quite contrary to the bullsh*t that one might see on Fox News, CNN, MSNBC or any other propaganda "news" source, war is actually going out of style as the number of deaths from war is plummeting. You can see the actual statistics here in this highly intriguing and short video................ 

 

Second, the fact that SO MANY PEOPLE are now QUESTIONING the sh*t that is going on around them, I think is nothing short of miraculous and divine. Throughout all of history no one really ever questioned anything. If a king from one fiefdom didn't like another king from another fiefdom, he would launch an all-out brutal and bloody war that might last for a century or longer and no one ever really questioned why it was happening. You didn't have people out protesting, putting up enormous obstacles to the powers-that-be in the form of passive resistance, they just went along with the flow and did whatever they were told. I know it may be very difficult to see (not only a national culture but a global culture) evolving, especially in the midst of the ridiculous behavior you might witness in a Wal-Mart somewhere but it most certainly IS happening. Now-A-Days governments can NOT get away with simply going to war against another country without having a VERY credible reason to do so and even after they've given their "reason", it still tends to cascade into even FAR MORE dissent. Remember the build-up to the War in Iraq and all the efforts to justify that before it happened and then how it all cascaded from that point? Then there was the build up to try to go to war against Iran and Syria but the people, particularly the good (heroic) people in our military said f*ck no, we're not doing that and the movement was shot down at that point. If the collective consciousness were the same that it was back around the 1500's, we wouldn't be here right now because the world would have already been destroyed a long time ago.

 

Third, you can believe whatever you want about this but I believe there has been a divine hand (God, the Universe, whatever you call it) that has steered us from numerous events that could have caused the world to be destroyed (and this is just an example of some of those times).......  

 

I also think it's very reasonable to say that if you look at our culture now compared to the way it was just a few hundred years ago, it has grown up quite a bit. For example, it used to be a totally accepted institutional practice to burn a woman to death, to force young children to work 20 hours a day in utterly horrid environments, or for people to "own" other people and treat them worse than cattle. Now there is HUGE conversation regarding vast abuses with our criminal justice system, people who do not receive adequate medical care because they can't afford it and ENORMOUS discussion about socioeconomic inequality. These ARE very real accomplishments that the human race has reached and I think someone who refuses to see any of this really isn't looking at the big picture.

[tnycman]

That's an excellent question man, so let me sum the reasons why I believe there is very LOGICAL reason to have this perspective.....

First off, quite contrary to the bullsh*t that one might see on Fox News, CNN, MSNBC or any other propaganda "news" source, war is actually going out of style as the number of deaths from war is plummeting. You can see the actual statistics here in this highly intriguing and short video................ 

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Second, the fact that SO MANY PEOPLE are now QUESTIONING the sh*t that is going on around them, I think is nothing short of miraculous and divine. Throughout all of history no one really ever questioned anything. If a king from one fiefdom didn't like another king from another fiefdom, he would launch an all-out brutal and bloody war that might last for a century or longer and no one ever really questioned why it was happening. You didn't have people out protesting, putting up enormous obstacles to the powers-that-be in the form of passive resistance, they just went along with the flow and did whatever they were told. I know it may be very difficult to see (not only a national culture but a global culture) evolving, especially in the midst of the ridiculous behavior you might witness in a Wal-Mart somewhere but it most certainly IS happening. Now-A-Days governments can NOT get away with simply going to war against another country without having a VERY credible reason to do so and even after they've given their "reason", it still tends to cascade into even FAR MORE dissent. Remember the build-up to the War in Iraq and all the efforts to justify that before it happened and then how it all cascaded from that point? Then there was the build up to try to go to war against Iran and Syria but the people, particularly the good (heroic) people in our military said f*ck no, we're not doing that and the movement was shot down at that point. If the collective consciousness were the same that it was back around the 1500's, we wouldn't be here right now because the world would have already been destroyed a long time ago.

 

Third, you can believe whatever you want about this but I believe there has been a divine hand (God, the Universe, whatever you call it) that has steered us from numerous events that could have caused the world to be destroyed (and this is just an example of some of those times).......  

 

I also think it's very reasonable to say that if you look at our culture now compared to the way it was just a few hundred years ago, it has grown up quite a bit. For example, it used to be a totally accepted institutional practice to burn a woman to death, to force young children to work 20 hours a day in utterly horrid environments, or for people to "own" other people and treat them worse than cattle. Now there is HUGE conversation regarding vast abuses with our criminal justice system, people who do not receive adequate medical care because they can't afford it and ENORMOUS discussion about socioeconomic inequality. These ARE very real accomplishments that the human race has reached and I think someone who refuses to see any of this really isn't looking at the big picture.

With all due respect your general assessment is very broad, obviously there is less appetite for was in general, as it always been, however we faild to understand the basis of war.

War never had or will have any valid justications other than greed, or personal gains be it in ancient times, or modern where war is big business.

Obviously times have changed, people don't think the same way as they did 50 or 100 years ago, war is not liked by majority of people, however the media and for profit war industry has become more sofisticated on how they will present wars now.

If you notice US media don't show the actual casualties of wars, therefore war don't seem that bad, besides aren't our kids practicing war everyday playing video games, I'm sure these kids are all pumped up and ready to go to war...
Until they get there and the reality hits them, and when they return they don't get all their help they need and deserve.

Talking about war, I'm after 9/11 almost 90% of Americans were like, yeah let's go and get those bastards ar any cost, and we did, but what happened ? We opened the Pandora box didn't we? Almost 16 years later the world is more effed up than prior to 9/11.

Who did profit and still does from the wars, yes you guessed it, the war profiteers, and the rest of us who paid for it are the suckers.

That being said, the war machine isn't going anywhere, not as long as our politicians can be bought by them..

And no war is not a necessary evil, there is plenty that the diplomacy can do.

I'm for live and let live, and not in the religious way, but as a personal believe.

Just my 2cents, I'm sure there plenty that will disagree with me, and I'd love to see their disagreements..

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[BradMillner46]

1 hour ago, tnycman said:

With all due respect your general assessment is very broad, obviously there is less appetite for was in general, as it always been, however we faild to understand the basis of war.

War never had or will have any valid justications other than greed, or personal gains be it in ancient times, or modern where war is big business.

Obviously times have changed, people don't think the same way as they did 50 or 100 years ago, war is not liked by majority of people, however the media and for profit war industry has become more sofisticated on how they will present wars now.

If you notice US media don't show the actual casualties of wars, therefore war don't seem that bad, besides aren't our kids practicing war everyday playing video games, I'm sure these kids are all pumped up and ready to go to war...
Until they get there and the reality hits them, and when they return they don't get all their help they need and deserve.

Talking about war, I'm after 9/11 almost 90% of Americans were like, yeah let's go and get those bastards ar any cost, and we did, but what happened ? We opened the Pandora box didn't we? Almost 16 years later the world is more effed up than prior to 9/11.

Who did profit and still does from the wars, yes you guessed it, the war profiteers, and the rest of us who paid for it are the suckers.

That being said, the war machine isn't going anywhere, not as long as our politicians can be bought by them..

And no war is not a necessary evil, there is plenty that the diplomacy can do.

I'm for live and let live, and not in the religious way, but as a personal believe.

Just my 2cents, I'm sure there plenty that will disagree with me, and I'd love to see their disagreements..

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I don't think that kids playing violent video games is the same thing at all as having blood lust and killing people in battle. In fact, I've heard of studies being done that completely disprove this connection.

The fact that so many people now question all of this is ABSOLUTELY MONUMENTAL and to not consider the ENORMOUS significance of this is illogical in terms of the big picture. I'm not saying this to ridicule you, I'm saying this to give you reason to not feel down about everything and to have much less fear.  For us (society) to be questioning and dissenting on so many things, we are moving closer and closer towards understanding why war has happened. Eventually we will get to the point where human beings no longer war against each other because we will have evolved to that point. The video I posted above lends strong credibility to this statement. I dare say that that time is approaching very quickly.

[tnycman]

 

I don't think that kids playing violent video games is the same thing at all as having blood lust and killing people in battle. In fact, I've heard of studies being done that completely disprove this connection.

The fact that so many people now question all of this is ABSOLUTELY MONUMENTAL and to not consider the ENORMOUS significance of this is illogical in terms of the big picture. I'm not saying this to ridicule you, I'm saying this to give you reason to not feel down about everything and to have much less fear.  

I did not meant to say that kids playing war games are going to be killers, but possibly give a sense that war is cool and and fun.. i have no data to back that its just an opinion more of how our lifes have been changed by technology and the possible implications.



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[BradMillner46]

Just now, tnycman said:

 

I did not meant to say that kids playing war games are going to be killers, but possibly give a sense that war is cool and and fun.. i have no data to back that its just an opinion more of how our lifes have been changed by technology and the possible implications.



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That's understandable to wonder about that BUT  the immovable, MONUMENTAL (and miraculous) force that ain't going anywhere and can never be discounted is the fact that SO MANY people are now questioning things and they are questioning things now on a level that involves concern for others instead of just their own selfish interests. In fact, I think people who do not do this are becoming a vast minority. 

I know it may be difficult to see all of this in the midst of watching, for example, people knocking each other out cold over some stupid toy on Black Friday, but it IS happening and it IS what the reality is. 

[lacanteen]

[musser]

Picture of: High School Graduates that voted for Trump. Trumps inauguration parade. People that think Trump will be a good President. Honest members of Trumps Cabinet. Republicans in 2020 that think they got what they voted for. The number of elderly left alive after the Republican Party guts health care, medicare, and social security.

[tnycman]

Picture of: High School Graduates that voted for Trump. Trumps inauguration parade. People that think Trump will be a good President. Honest members of Trumps Cabinet. Republicans in 2020 that think they got what they voted for. The number of elderly left alive after the Republican Party guts health care, medicare, and social security.

Before Trump and after:



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[lacanteen]

[musser]

IOU Five Rubles

[musser]

[BradMillner46]

To Lacanteen...................

I think that's a real good point you posted above with the picture that basically says that Conservatives don't riot the way (some) people from the Left do and I think that certainly deserves some positive acknowledgement. I think this is a virtue that can't be discredited and it's something that the Conservative side has always had. I can't remember ever seeing or hearing of Conservatives behaving like this throughout history and I think it's certainly something that society should learn from you all.

I know that we don't agree on a lot of things but I'm trying to (hopefully) see if we do agree on some things. Therefore I wanted to ask you this question (and I'm not going to shoot down what you say, I'm just going to listen and think about what you say)...............

The demographic of people who identify with being Conservative are predominantly older people. The ones that I have met are people that I would consider to be good people. They are some of the most honest, hard working and humble people I've ever known. I know that this demographic has A LOT of retirement aged people who simply have no money and no medical care. A lot of them are simply suffering and dying because of this fact. Therefore my question to you is how do you think we should go about helping these people to see to it that they don't continue to suffer and die? The "socialist" perspective would be to give these people medical care (and money) for free like they do in Norway and Canada to help these people and heal the situation. I noticed before though that you've posted some very negative things about socialism including 1 picture that depicts socialists as immature little children that need to grow up. So what would you do about this very real problem? What do you think we should do about these people? 

[tnycman]

To Lacanteen...................

I think that's a real good point you posted above with the picture that basically says that Conservatives don't riot the way (some) people from the Left do and I think that certainly deserves some positive acknowledgement. I think this is a virtue that can't be discredited and it's something that the Conservative side has always had. I can't remember ever seeing or hearing of Conservatives behaving like this throughout history and I think it's certainly something that society should learn from you all.

I know that we don't agree on a lot of things but I'm trying to (hopefully) see if we do agree on some things. Therefore I wanted to ask you this question (and I'm not going to shoot down what you say, I'm just going to listen and think about what you say)...............

The demographic of people who identify with being Conservative are predominantly older people. The ones that I have met are people that I would consider to be good people. They are some of the most honest, hard working and humble people I've ever known. I know that this demographic has A LOT of retirement aged people who simply have no money and no medical care. A lot of them are simply suffering and dying because of this fact. Therefore my question to you is how do you think we should go about helping these people to see to it that they don't continue to suffer and die? The "socialist" perspective would be to give these people medical care (and money) for free like they do in Norway and Canada to help these people and heal the situation. I noticed before though that you've posted some very negative things about socialism including 1 picture that depicts socialists as immature little children that need to grow up. So what would you do about this very real problem? What do you think we should do about these people? 

Sorry, but could not resist..
I'm sure Lacanteen will respInd with another picture soon.

Simple, don't waste or tax payers $$$ in useless wars or by protecting our interest overseas which are the interest of the oil and other corporations. We should stop being the world police, overthrow other governments, and invest in our people, regardless of political affiliation everyone deserve to have a basic health insurance, and some assistance to have a decen living. Especially the elderly who really worked hard all their lifes, but weren't as successful as some.
We give free aids to other countries, which I'm for, but only when we have solved all the financial issues here at home.

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[BradMillner46]

2 hours ago, tnycman said:

 

Sorry, but could not resist..
I'm sure Lacanteen will respInd with another picture soon.

Simple, don't waste or tax payers $$$ in useless wars or by protecting our interest overseas which are the interest of the oil and other corporations. We should stop being the world police, overthrow other governments, and invest in our people, regardless of political affiliation everyone deserve to have a basic health insurance, and some assistance to have a decen living. Especially the elderly who really worked hard all their lifes, but weren't as successful as some.
We give free aids to other countries, which I'm for, but only when we have solved all the financial issues here at home.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
 

 

I like what you have to say tncyman as I'm really starting to appreciate a whole lot of what you say.

Let's see if we can get Lacanteen to give his own thoughts on this and how about you, me and everyone else just listen to what he has to say and not judge him for it? I know I've judged him already but I'm stepping back from that.

 I believe he has some things to tell us coming from his Conservative perspective that are important for us to hear. He certainly had something very important to say with what he posted above with the fact that Conservatives do not riot. 

To Lacanteen - Would you mind giving us your thoughts regarding the question I asked you above? 

[lacanteen]

It's difficult to answer a "question" that stated in broad terms as all inclusive. Let me start at the beginning..................

I was born and raised in Northeast Ohio. Very Democrat, very blue collar. At 18, I registered as a Democrat, my first presidential vote was for Jimmy Carter. Charles J Carney (D), Warren was a family friend as well as our congressman to be replaced by James Traficant whom I also voted for. I received my first bachelor degree from Youngstown State University. It seems that most young people that vote are Democrat, though I can't explain why. Traditionally, blue collar workers vote Democrat and I hesitate to explain why. I did it because my family was Democrat and very blue collar.

I received a 4 year academic scholarship from the Ohio Board of Regents to attend any State college in Ohio based on my ACT scores and my grade performance at my high school. I received the Americanism Award and scholarship money from the local American Legion. I received additional academic scholarship money from YSU as an enticement to accept an offer to attend the school. What does this all mean? To me, I earned my degree through hard school work, and I was not a financial burden to my family. To keep the scholarships, I had to maintain a minimum of 14 credit hours per quarter and maintain a 3.0 or higher GPA, more work.

I married at 19 years old, and we had 2 children before the 4 years was up. I also worked 1 full time job and 1 part time job to make ends meet. I also excelled in my work profession and became well known and respected in my industry. I moved my family to Mississippi in 1987, bought my first house, and enjoyed middle class life, turning down offers in Atlanta, New York, St Louis, and Dallas.

What does any of that have to do with Socialism? I don't feel entitled to anything. Everything I have and have done has been on my terms. I am not rich because I didn't want to work that hard. I'm not poor because I'm not afraid to work. I believe that government exists to keep us safe and civilized, provide infrastructure, and community service. The largest employer in the world is the US Department of Defense, which has layers upon layers of "managerial red tape". The US Federal Government, is a behemoth of waste and cronyism. There are 75 or so Federal programs addressing poverty spread out over several agencies that believe that if successful, they will be out of a job. This is the current government mantra. It is why the spending is out of control. It is self perpetuating.

You stated that Conservatives are old. That is somewhat true. Conservatives have grown up, maintained gainful employment to reap maximum social security. Today's retirees won't enjoy the pensions that the early boomers got. As a late boomer, I'd be surprised if I get social security, so I have saved for years participating in 401K programs. I don't see many "old poor people". Social security and Medicare are available. It's not quite possible to die of non-treatment because if you show up at a hospital they must treat you regardless of your ability to pay.

I'm also encouraged to see that friends that I grew up with are now Conservative. It seems to prove my point that you appreciate a life that you built rather than one that was provided. When I lost my corporate job in 2009, I worked for cash in the underground amusement business fixing juke boxes, pool tables, video games and gambling games for 3 months. I was not a burden to my family or the taxpayers. Conservatives are self made, but will aid the less fortunate when given the opportunity. I have seen it over and over without being asked and without flourish.

I also like to have fun and try to see the humor in daily life. I mastered the all caps button and the bold button a long time ago and have no need to display those talents. I also speak satire fluently and am well versed in passive aggressiveness. I can sometimes be condescending, maybe you've heard of it.

[musser]

My life trajectory: Ultra Right, WTAF is going on? Ultra Left. WTAF is going on? Duh, I've always been played and never a player. WTAF is going on? I wanna be a pirate!

Yer gonna shoot yer eye out.

Nemophilist

And sniper, don't forget sniper.

[musser]

What if Melania is a Russian Plant and is the Donalds handler?

[BradMillner46]

6 hours ago, lacanteen said:

It's difficult to answer a "question" that stated in broad terms as all inclusive. Let me start at the beginning..................

I was born and raised in Northeast Ohio. Very Democrat, very blue collar. At 18, I registered as a Democrat, my first presidential vote was for Jimmy Carter. Charles J Carney (D), Warren was a family friend as well as our congressman to be replaced by James Traficant whom I also voted for. I received my first bachelor degree from Youngstown State University. It seems that most young people that vote are Democrat, though I can't explain why. Traditionally, blue collar workers vote Democrat and I hesitate to explain why. I did it because my family was Democrat and very blue collar.

I received a 4 year academic scholarship from the Ohio Board of Regents to attend any State college in Ohio based on my ACT scores and my grade performance at my high school. I received the Americanism Award and scholarship money from the local American Legion. I received additional academic scholarship money from YSU as an enticement to accept an offer to attend the school. What does this all mean? To me, I earned my degree through hard school work, and I was not a financial burden to my family. To keep the scholarships, I had to maintain a minimum of 14 credit hours per quarter and maintain a 3.0 or higher GPA, more work.

I married at 19 years old, and we had 2 children before the 4 years was up. I also worked 1 full time job and 1 part time job to make ends meet. I also excelled in my work profession and became well known and respected in my industry. I moved my family to Mississippi in 1987, bought my first house, and enjoyed middle class life, turning down offers in Atlanta, New York, St Louis, and Dallas.

What does any of that have to do with Socialism? I don't feel entitled to anything. Everything I have and have done has been on my terms. I am not rich because I didn't want to work that hard. I'm not poor because I'm not afraid to work. I believe that government exists to keep us safe and civilized, provide infrastructure, and community service. The largest employer in the world is the US Department of Defense, which has layers upon layers of "managerial red tape". The US Federal Government, is a behemoth of waste and cronyism. There are 75 or so Federal programs addressing poverty spread out over several agencies that believe that if successful, they will be out of a job. This is the current government mantra. It is why the spending is out of control. It is self perpetuating.

You stated that Conservatives are old. That is somewhat true. Conservatives have grown up, maintained gainful employment to reap maximum social security. Today's retirees won't enjoy the pensions that the early boomers got. As a late boomer, I'd be surprised if I get social security, so I have saved for years participating in 401K programs. I don't see many "old poor people". Social security and Medicare are available. It's not quite possible to die of non-treatment because if you show up at a hospital they must treat you regardless of your ability to pay.

I'm also encouraged to see that friends that I grew up with are now Conservative. It seems to prove my point that you appreciate a life that you built rather than one that was provided. When I lost my corporate job in 2009, I worked for cash in the underground amusement business fixing juke boxes, pool tables, video games and gambling games for 3 months. I was not a burden to my family or the taxpayers. Conservatives are self made, but will aid the less fortunate when given the opportunity. I have seen it over and over without being asked and without flourish.

I also like to have fun and try to see the humor in daily life. I mastered the all caps button and the bold button a long time ago and have no need to display those talents. I also speak satire fluently and am well versed in passive aggressiveness. I can sometimes be condescending, maybe you've heard of it.

I knew you were all of the above with hard working, honest and humble as virtually every person I've ever met before who shares your same values is this way (and I would also throw in self-reliant.) I'm in the honor box business and I can say that if everyone in society were like you all, there would be no stealing and I would be a very wealthy man.

On the note you brought up about not seeing old people who are in poverty...... Maybe where you live, there aren't any elderly people in poverty, but where I live, most of the homeless people (and there are a lot of them), are elderly. With all due respect also, I think statistics will definitely show that the elderly makes up a very large percentage of poor people. I've also talked with many homeless people as well as many different healthcare professionals and they've all said that when you're in poverty and you try to get medical care it is most definitely not the same as if you're not in poverty and you have health insurance. Poor people with no health insurance receive very poor medical treatment, regardless of if the law forces the hospitals to admit them as patients or not. The elderly homeless people that I've spoken with have your exact same sense of values you have and I would bet they also supported Donald Trump. They were in situations where for example, the company they worked for went belly-up and they lost everything or they got injured at work and because of their age and their much worsened physical condition, couldn't find work. Or if they could find work, it was minimum wage and minimum wage doesn't begin to make a life for someone. Long story short, they have all explained to me exactly how so many of them are suffering and dying.

I figured I would ask you about this because these are all people who I think are just like you. They have the same values as you and I know a whole lot of them are veterans and extremely proud to have served their country. So I guess I'm just perplexed here because unless I'm misunderstanding you, you're basically saying that they aren't suffering and there is no crisis they are experiencing and that we should just "go about business as usual?" I hope you understand, I'm not trying to ridicule you, all I'm doing is trying to understand you. Am I missing something here?

[musser]

[lacanteen]

13 hours ago, BradMillner46 said:

I figured I would ask you about this because these are all people who I think are just like you. They have the same values as you and I know a whole lot of them are veterans and extremely proud to have served their country. So I guess I'm just perplexed here because unless I'm misunderstanding you, you're basically saying that they aren't suffering and there is no crisis they are experiencing and that we should just "go about business as usual?" I hope you understand, I'm not trying to ridicule you, all I'm doing is trying to understand you. Am I missing something here?

Although I'm not a veteran, my grandfather was a full bird colonel in WW-II, a successful businessman, and involved in city politics, hence the friendly connection to the Congressman. So, there are leaders and there are leaders.

With all of the government aid available, there is no reason for total suffering. There is welfare, medicare, medicaid to name a few. My daughter worked in a women's shelter in New Orleans as a licensed social worker. Churches and businesses picked up the slack, when asked, when needed. A lot of the homeless are that way because they choose to be, but that isn't my main point. The point is there is help. It takes a community to see to their neighbors. My daughter now runs a drug rehab program at a hospital in Mississippi. It's the same situation: if someone does not want help or want to be better, they won't be.

There are plenty of safety nets out there. When you see someone with a problem do you try to help or do you hope someone else will help? There's your political gut check. Thanks for waking mine up.

[BradMillner46]

55 minutes ago, lacanteen said:

Although I'm not a veteran, my grandfather was a full bird colonel in WW-II, a successful businessman, and involved in city politics, hence the friendly connection to the Congressman. So, there are leaders and there are leaders.

With all of the government aid available, there is no reason for total suffering. There is welfare, medicare, medicaid to name a few. My daughter worked in a women's shelter in New Orleans as a licensed social worker. Churches and businesses picked up the slack, when asked, when needed. A lot of the homeless are that way because they choose to be, but that isn't my main point. The point is there is help. It takes a community to see to their neighbors. My daughter now runs a drug rehab program at a hospital in Mississippi. It's the same situation: if someone does not want help or want to be better, they won't be.

There are plenty of safety nets out there. When you see someone with a problem do you try to help or do you hope someone else will help? There's your political gut check. Thanks for waking mine up.

I think you made an extremely good point in your last post before this one where you were basically talking about the extreme waste of government bureaucracy and I personally believe that more government never really solves any problems, it just makes problems worse. So (I think?) we can definitely agree on that.

I am going to have to strongly disagree with you about what you said in that homeless people "choose to be homeless." I work sometimes as a volunteer at a local soup kitchen as well as have conversations with homeless people every time I go downtown. It has certainly not been my experience that ANY of these people have chosen to be homeless. To me a choice is where you are offered a clear path to pick from among several different options and you therefore knowingly and willingly choose that option. What I have experienced from ALL of the homeless people that I've ever gotten to know is that being homeless is all they've ever known. It's like these people have been infected with a disease that has severely limited their thinking and clouded their mind. In fact, chronic homelessness is now being looked at as a mental disorder that can become contagious to anyone, pending the experiences a person has. You could send a perfectly normal man from a good family off to war who watches his buddies get ripped to shreds, people being decapitated, children being raped and he returns home a dramatically different person. This happened a whole lot with your generation through Vietnam and it's very tragic. Therefore to me, I feel that I have absolutely no room to judge these people because I have no idea what they've gone through and I would bet they've all gone through some pretty horrific sh*t that would make you and I cringe.

So I think we agree about government bureaucracy in that it just makes problems worse. The more government you introduce, the worse problems become, period. There's an emerging new concept that's really beginning to gain traction called "Universal Basic Income." I don't know if you've heard of it but the idea is to eliminate all forms of social welfare programs run through government and simply give people free money - An income that they can use to sustain themselves. This money would be given to people without restriction and people could spend it any way they want. This idea may sound totally off the wall but it has already been tested in other countries to great success. Also believe it or not, Milton Friedman and Richard Nixon were huge advocates for this and Nixon almost passed this into law before it was shot down by the Democrats in the 1960s (and now we can see what the end result is from all the government social welfare programs the Democrats built.)

This idea currently has very strong support from both Libertarians and Progressives in this country...........

 

[lacanteen]

Universal basic income would be a hard sell in this country. We have traditionally been the land of opportunity where hard honest work is rewarded. Where you can take a good idea and market it. Most "self made millionaires" have failed several times in their lives, but the chance of success makes them get up every morning. Money for nothing is a song, not a plan. Look at how many Power Ball winners end up bankrupt after a few years.

One of our current problems is education and life training. Most high school graduates don't need a 4 year college, they need to be trained to do something useful. Welding, plumbing, mechanics, electrical. All of those jobs pay well and don't require a 4 year degree, AND, there are plenty of jobs for them.

As for chronic homelessness, there's no public outcry loud enough to get attention. We pay millions of dollars every year for parks and recreation, yet our veterans return home to long waiting lines to get the help they deserve. We pay billions of dollars to other countries, yet our own citizens can't get the mental health treatment to get get them off the streets. We pay billions of dollars on the war on drugs but spend little to stop the demand or shore up our boarders. We pay our servicemen barely minimum wage, and make them sleep in barracks while our congressmen make $180K per year and live and work lavishly.

I would love to be appointed "Spending Czar" and my wage would be 1% of all the money I save the US taxpayers. The only potential I see in Donald Trump as president, is the possibility that he will actually do a forensic audit and see where every penny goes. Would he live to see the results? Government is not about us except when it's time to vote.

[musser]

However well intentioned a universal guaranteed income will fix nothing.

There will always be people that are destitute and homeless just as there will always be people who are addicts, criminals, and ignorant. Nothing will change that.

Bluntly the best interest of the public is to protect the public from those that impose a never ending drain on public resources.

The great conundrum is where do we place the "marker" between the unredeemable and those that would become solid citizens. That is now and has always been the great divide in the nation.

Neither "left" or "right" are correct positions because both sides are based upon self serving beliefs.

The United States has been a becon to the world because despite veering hither and yon over the political spectrum the average course has been decidedly middle of the road.