lacanteen Posted January 8, 2017 Author Share Posted January 8, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musser Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 Yes that was the case with MSNBC but the opposite is true of Fox is it not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musser Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 Interestingly Brad, the very earliest white settlements in this country were very much communal. Everyone of those settlements were actually founded by trading companies given royal charters. Some military and clergy were included to help keep people in line. The problem was that once the ships left to hi back to Europe the new settlers were on their own. the earliest settlers became communal by necessity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musser Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tnycman Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 These are all excellent points. In looking back through your all's posts and actually paying attention to the merits of what you all are saying instead of trying to impose my opinion on top of yours, I'm coming around too seeing that you guys are alright. There really isn't any difference between you all and myself and my apologies for being the way I was. You guys may be coming from a much more libertarian perspective while I'm coming from a much more communal perspective, but I'm seeing the virtues in both and they aren't really polar opposites. They can very much so compliment each other. I've also come to the conclusion that any new system that we choose to develop must have as its foundation, the REAL fundamental principles of our Founding Fathers. To throw these fundamental principles away would be a HUGE mistake as The Soviet Union tried to do. There may have been somewhat of a virtuous ideal to eliminate poverty in their system but by throwing out the virtues of individual freedom and self determination, they wrecked the entire ship before it even took off the ground. All that was left was just an institution of enforced poverty for the masses leaving a few wealthy and highly corrupt people at the top. Ironically the end result was everything they revolted against from the very beginning. We're all on the same side but I'm amazed with people who think Trump will fix Washington, i mean honestly do you really think he is there for us the people ? That's the problem i have with our political system is completely controlled by big corporations and there is ko denying.I woyld consider Trump presidency a success if he does just the following things:Remove money from politics.No campain donations from corporations, put the limits for individuals to some small amount to just a few bucks.No foreign lobby of any kind, we don't need any country to influence our policy makers on how US conduct it foreign business.The only lobbying i like to see is for the American people us the tax payers.Is this to much or unreasonable to ask ?If Trump can do just these 2 things he will have my trust and he has my vote next time.For the record I'm neither associated with Dems, and Reps as i see them as the same simply representing different corporate interests, and not the peoples, due to the circumstances we have in our two party systems i lean more towards the Dems, but it hurts me when i have no real alternative.I'm a registered working families party. [emoji1] This time, i just did not bother voting.Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradMillner46 Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 11 hours ago, tnycman said: We're all on the same side but I'm amazed with people who think Trump will fix Washington, i mean honestly do you really think he is there for us the people ? That's the problem i have with our political system is completely controlled by big corporations and there is ko denying. I woyld consider Trump presidency a success if he does just the following things: Remove money from politics. No campain donations from corporations, put the limits for individuals to some small amount to just a few bucks. No foreign lobby of any kind, we don't need any country to influence our policy makers on how US conduct it foreign business. The only lobbying i like to see is for the American people us the tax payers. Is this to much or unreasonable to ask ? If Trump can do just these 2 things he will have my trust and he has my vote next time. For the record I'm neither associated with Dems, and Reps as i see them as the same simply representing different corporate interests, and not the peoples, due to the circumstances we have in our two party systems i lean more towards the Dems, but it hurts me when i have no real alternative. I'm a registered working families party. This time, i just did not bother voting. Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk Hey dude, I didn't vote either! I guess guys like us are more intelligent than that and don't care for another meaningless choice..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lacanteen Posted January 10, 2017 Author Share Posted January 10, 2017 If you didn't vote you can't complain about the outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tnycman Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 If you didn't vote you can't complain about the outcome.I didn't want to have to choose of two evils for the lesser evil, but still end up with an EVIL."Of two evils, choose neither", Charles SpurgeonSent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tnycman Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 Interestingly Brad, the very earliest white settlements in this country were very much communal. Everyone of those settlements were actually founded by trading companies given royal charters. Some military and clergy were included to help keep people in line. The problem was that once the ships left to hi back to Europe the new settlers were on their own. the earliest settlers became communal by necessity.Aren't they considered illegal as well ?Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musser Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 illegal? how so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tnycman Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 illegal? how so?Is there a difference between taking a boat from Europe and landing in America from Europe, or coming from Mexico ? [emoji1] Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musser Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 They have boats in Mexico? Who knew. Well there goes that wall idea. Lol, There already is a lot of wall on the border. But rough terrain precludes some of it. And then there is opposition from land owners (ranchers) that don't want their water supply on the wrong side of the wall! Yep, by todays alt right standards every person of European decent must be illegal. Even more interesting: those dimwit ranchers all mad because the Federal Government wont give them free land because the land "belongs" to Utah, Nevada or whatever are idiots. Sorry nut jobs, by purchase, conquest, treaty every square inch of this country was the property of the United States Government ( after the Native Americans were poisoned, starved, shot, slaughtered, enslaved and removed) The US Government surveyed the land and doled it out. States had to ASK to be given the right to form a State Government and be admitted to the Union. That right to form a civil Government never meant that the thus formed State owned any property. Yes property was doled out in many ways but the origin of all land titles began with the Federal Government. The Federal Government, through many many court cases even up held previous land titles given by England, France, Spain. The easiest to find are Supreme Court cases from the late 1700's upholding titles in the original colonies. The two exceptions may be Texas and California but I don't know those states history that well. Ok here's my "dirty secret". I am very much Libertarian but I am also pragmatic. Libertarianism does not work well in crowds. People are tribal by nature (commune?) But communes don't work well in large groups either. My personal feeling is that we have too many people already. I don't care about the ethnic, racial, or religious make up at all. There are simply too many people for the idealized social constructs to work. So to deal with the reality of over population I am at best a Post Modern Ironist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tnycman Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 They have boats in Mexico? Who knew. Well there goes that wall idea. Lol, There already is a lot of wall on the border. But rough terrain precludes some of it. And then there is opposition from land owners (ranchers) that don't want their water supply on the wrong side of the wall! Yep, by todays alt right standards every person of European decent must be illegal. Even more interesting: those dimwit ranchers all mad because the Federal Government wont give them free land because the land "belongs" to Utah, Nevada or whatever are idiots. Sorry nut jobs, by purchase, conquest, treaty every square inch of this country was the property of the United States Government ( after the Native Americans were poisoned, starved, shot, slaughtered, enslaved and removed) The US Government surveyed the land and doled it out. States had to ASK to be given the right to form a State Government and be admitted to the Union. That right to form a civil Government never meant that the thus formed State owned any property. Yes property was doled out in many ways but the origin of all land titles began with the Federal Government. The Federal Government, through many many court cases even up held previous land titles given by England, France, Spain. The easiest to find are Supreme Court cases from the late 1700's upholding titles in the original colonies. The two exceptions may be Texas and California but I don't know those states history that well. Ok here's my "dirty secret". I am very much Libertarian but I am also pragmatic. Libertarianism does not work well in crowds. People are tribal by nature (commune?) But communes don't work well in large groups either. My personal feeling is that we have too many people already. I don't care about the ethnic, racial, or religious make up at all. There are simply too many people for the idealized social constructs to work. So to deal with the reality of over population I am at best a Post Modern Ironist.Compared to other countries US and Russia would be considered underpopulated, we have the majority of population concerned in the metropolitan areas, but i do agree the world is overpopulated in general, but having a nut case as a president with the nuclear code isn't the solution either.Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lacanteen Posted January 10, 2017 Author Share Posted January 10, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musser Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 Let the entertainment begin. I hope congress votes on " Obama care" repeal soon. There are rants by some Trump supporters that Obama Care is an intrusion that's got to go and they are not worried because they have insurance under the Affordable Care Act. Can't make this stuff up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tnycman Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 Let the entertainment begin. I hope congress votes on " Obama care" repeal soon. There are rants by some Trump supporters that Obama Care is an intrusion that's got to go and they are not worried because they have insurance under the Affordable Care Act. Can't make this stuff up. Replace it with ? Trump care ??Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musser Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 23 minutes ago, tnycman said: Replace it with ? Trump care ?? Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk Yes and Trumps minions will be happy! Cause it's Amerkin and not some "Muzlin" plot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tnycman Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 Yes and Trumps minions will be happy! Cause it's Amerkin and not some "Muzlin" plot!Haha, yeah i forgot Obama is a Muslim undercover and quietly destroying America..Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musser Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 Just wait, I can totally see the Republicans making a big deal out of a couple of minor changes and claiming they repealed Obama Care and replaced it with something they will call freedom care or some bs. And they will be happy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tnycman Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 Just wait, I can totally see the Republicans making a big deal out of a couple of minor changes and claiming they repealed Obama Care and replaced it with something they will call freedom care or some bs. And they will be happy!Well not sure if you seen it, but Trump said he won't dismantle the Obamacare since it would be to costly, instead will modify it, i guess he will sugar coat it..Once he takes office the reality will hit, and he can't do jack, then will be fun times..Karma is a beyotch..Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradMillner46 Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 If you all want to talk about healthcare then I think it would be a real good idea to look at which countries actually have the best healthcare for everyone (and then ask why we don't have that here.) I was in New Orleans a few months ago and spoke with a guy from Canada about healthcare and he made it a point to tell me that everything that we have been told to believe about Canada's healthcare system being so bad is absolutely wrong. He said he finds it INSANE the way we do healthcare here. Then I spoke with a couple people from Norway who said the exact same thing about their healthcare versus our healthcare. You can say whatever you want about socialism but there are some virtuous elements within socialism that when you discard all of it and say it's all bad is equivalent to the disastrous results that the Soviet Union did with throwing away personal liberty and freedom. I think millions of old people who couldn't afford adequate healthcare and suffered and died as a result is proof enough of this. To lacanteen, I hope you're listening..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tnycman Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 If you all want to talk about healthcare then I think it would be a real good idea to look at which countries actually have the best healthcare for everyone (and then ask why we don't have that here.) I was in New Orleans a few months ago and spoke with a guy from Canada about healthcare and he made it a point to tell me that everything that we have been told to believe about Canada's healthcare system being so bad is absolutely wrong. He said he finds it INSANE the way we do healthcare here. Then I spoke with a couple people from Norway who said the exact same thing about their healthcare versus our healthcare. You can say whatever you want about socialism but there are some virtuous elements within socialism that when you discard all of it and say it's all bad is equivalent to the disastrous results that the Soviet Union did with throwing away personal liberty and freedom. I think millions of old people who couldn't afford adequate healthcare and suffered and died as a result is proof enough of this. To lacanteen, I hope you're listening.....Acording to Trump, the Canadians come over to US in large numbers in order to get better and faster service, however the irony is that here in US we have the Obamacare which he told everyone how terrible OC wss and that he will dismantle it the first day in office.WRONG!!! LOLSent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradMillner46 Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 1 hour ago, tnycman said: Acording to Trump, the Canadians come over to US in large numbers in order to get better and faster service, however the irony is that here in US we have the Obamacare which he told everyone how terrible OC wss and that he will dismantle it the first day in office. WRONG!!! LOL Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk If Trump moves in the direction that I think you, musser and myself see him moving in, he's gonna spark off a revolution. I draw an analogy of what's happening with all of this to a bow and arrow...... There is an obvious movement going one way (with the Trump movement and the right wing taking the house and the senate) like pulling the string back on the bow. But once it gets to the point where people start to realize that Trump is all full of sh*t, there will be an even FAR greater exponential movement going back much harder the other way like what happens when you release the arrow. I think this FAR greater exponential force is going to be what you see in the Progressive except this time, the majority of Trump people will be backing this movement too because this movement speaks to them also. I just hope that when the arrow lets fly this time (like it did during the Russian Revolution) that the virtuous elements of democracy aren't thrown away. Otherwise it will be like the Iron Curtain on steroids. On a positive note, I don't think there would be much of a chance, if any, of this happening because there's just simply too damn many of us will not shut up and will not lay down for their bulls**t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musser Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 I don't see that at all. If people do wake up to a giant lie (they will) there will be a lot of noise but no real action. They (the right) will end up just like the left. The left was convinced the Obama would change the world, he didn't, he couldn't. The left is all pouty and whiney now. Well, I think when its all played out the right will also end up all pouty and whiney. This is what has always happened. The illusion of empowerment while we slowly decline into servitude. A subtle manipulation of economic and political 'freedoms" keeps the peoples hopes up, chasing shamans. While the real agenda progresses in the background. Ok, maybe you think I've finally went all daft. Consider this: what are the people at this site doing? They are exchanging ideas and information to better enable them to create personal wealth. How do you influence a location to let you install machines? All sorts of conversation. And this is all about gumballs, pinballs, and snacks. And for most, just part time a few bucks along the way. What do you think the richest 10 people in the world do? What do the top 25 or 100 richest do? Do you really think they done talk to each other? What do they talk about? The same thing we are here. How to make more money. How to lower costs. How to control the market. The problem is all great wealth comes from all the other people that don't have it. We are it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musser Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 Let us all try to raise the level of political discourse. I think this will help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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