ignika98 Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 I'm working on fixing up my Dixie Narco 501E and I've run into a bit of an issue. Column 1 refuses to vend anything, and columns 4, 5, 6, 8 and 9 all double or even triple vend sometimes. I've done some testing and it seems the problem might be related to the alignment of the cradles. I'm not sure though and would really appreciate some help with this. I've almost got it in working order and just need to cross this final hurdle before the machine is fully operational. Here's some footage of the problem: As you can see, column 1 just oscillates back and forth without actually vending anything or dropping the next drink down into the cradle. It's worth noting that it did manage to vend a single can once, that's why there's a space where the first can should be. I have no idea why or how it managed to vend that time, though. Here's a view of what the top of the column looks like when it tries to vend. The reason the motor keeps spinning is because I'm holding the motor test button down the whole time. Here's an example of the problem I'm having with the narrow columns. Columns 4, 5, 6, 8 and 9 all exhibit this behavior. It looks like the cradle doesn't rotate quite enough to vend the can each time. So when the cam hits the first notch, nothing happens. But when it rotates again and hits the second notch, the first can vends but then the second can gets stuck. Then, when it rotates all the way around, both the second and third can vend. I checked all the rods and cams to make sure they're set correctly. I'm pretty sure the shims are the right ones as well. Do any of you guys know how I could fix this issue? P.S. Please excuse the messy wiring. I redid all the wiring myself as this used to be an old single price relay machine that I upgraded to an SIID board. I haven't tidied up the wires just yet seeing as I may still need to mess with them to get the machine fully working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vendo Mike Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 Looks like it's shimmed too tightly for cans to drop into or our of the right side of the ocsillator in column 1. I haven't set up a DN in many years though. You might remove one shim from each side and try again. For the thin columns, I'm curious if the spring/rod are in the correct position. Also, that's a fancy bird nest you're making out of the motor switch harness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ignika98 Posted July 17 Author Share Posted July 17 5 hours ago, Vendo Mike said: Looks like it's shimmed too tightly for cans to drop into or our of the right side of the ocsillator in column 1. I haven't set up a DN in many years though. You might remove one shim from each side and try again. For the thin columns, I'm curious if the spring/rod are in the correct position. Removing one shim from each side of the wide column didn't seem to solve it, unfortunately. The narrow column rods are all straight and in slot B. 5 hours ago, Vendo Mike said: Also, that's a fancy bird nest you're making out of the motor switch harness. Yeah lol like I said in the OP I haven't tidied it up yet since I'm still trying to get the machine fully working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fermo Vending Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 What's your cam setting on for the narrow & wide column? Have you removed the cradles at any point during your refurb? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ignika98 Posted July 17 Author Share Posted July 17 2 minutes ago, Fermo Vending said: What's your cam setting on for the narrow & wide column? Have you removed the cradles at any point during your refurb? All narrow columns are on can setting 1, and the wide column is on cam setting 2. I have not removed any of the narrow column cradles at any point. Although I did swap the motors of columns 7 and 8 while I was troubleshooting a previous, unrelated issue. If it means anything, column 7 is one of the few columns that vends properly. I did partially remove the cradle from the wide column while I was troubleshooting this issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryChris Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 This is a prime example of an oscillator being installed upside down. You have to pull the cans out, remove the motor (note how the little nub fits in the oscillator), rotate the oscillator 180 degrees (just spin it around), line the nub back up and reinstall the motor and it should work fine. That's for your oscillator. As for the narrow column, it looks as though things are setup right but I can't really tell from the video. That motor might be upside down too but I don't know if that's a thing. However, you need a can shim for cans but I think it's in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vendo Mike Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 I think your cam setting might be incorrect or the cradle may be incorrect since the back can chases the 2nd one. You might remove another shim on the wide column and continue to try as you can see the oscillator opening completely but the packages just dont fit. I believe the shims are installed correctly but that's by memory. I'm sure someone on here can confirm/deny that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vendo Mike Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 Incorrectly installed oscillator and cradle makes sense too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fermo Vending Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 I've re-installed a removed cradle 180 degrees out of alignment once and was running into this same issue. I'd get a dry vend and then a double vend consistently (I was running 2 deep bottles). Your setup does seem correct, so like @AngryChris mentioned you'll want to remove the cradle and try re-inserting it after rotating it 180 degrees from the position it was originally in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZVendor Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 Here is how you set up your machine for 12 oz cans. If your setup is correct (pay close attention to the motor cams and can shims - not bottle shims) and it still mis-vends then something is installed wrong. https://rc.cranems.com/Uploads/93-279-34.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lacanteen Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 Since columns 2 & 3 are working, test vend them until the rotor is "up" meaning it just loaded 3 more cans. Then test vend the others to the exact same position and look for what is different between 2 & 3, especially the switch cams, and the rest of the machine. If everything is identical, then the rotors are twisted. My money is on the rotors being 180 degrees out of time requiring you to remove the motor, rotate the rotor 180 degrees, reattach motor. The cam switch should be set on #1, and the cams should be brown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ignika98 Posted July 18 Author Share Posted July 18 On 7/17/2024 at 2:40 PM, AngryChris said: This is a prime example of an oscillator being installed upside down. You have to pull the cans out, remove the motor (note how the little nub fits in the oscillator), rotate the oscillator 180 degrees (just spin it around), line the nub back up and reinstall the motor and it should work fine. Indeed, that fixed the wide column. Thank you, and everyone else who suggested this. Column 1 now vends properly. Unfortunately, that solution didn't seem to work for the narrow columns. I tested it out on column 4 and it essentially just flipped the column upside down lol. 1 hour ago, lacanteen said: Since columns 2 & 3 are working, test vend them until the rotor is "up" meaning it just loaded 3 more cans. Then test vend the others to the exact same position and look for what is different between 2 & 3, especially the switch cams, and the rest of the machine. If everything is identical, then the rotors are twisted. My money is on the rotors being 180 degrees out of time requiring you to remove the motor, rotate the rotor 180 degrees, reattach motor. The cam switch should be set on #1, and the cams should be brown. The thing with the narrow columns is that they're almost in the right position. In fact, if I reach underneath the machine when the first can gets stuck, I can push the column a bit to the side and the can falls out. Same thing when the second can gets stuck. So I don't think it's completely upside down like column 1 was. I'll be going away for about 10 days so I won't be able to work on the machine until I'm back home. If any of you guys have any other suggestions for how I could fix the narrow columns please let me know and I'll try implementing your solutions when I return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZVendor Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 (edited) You could have a worn out rotor in that the D shape in the front of it is rounded out and has too much movement. It could also be related to having the red sleeves on the rod/spring. Those don't belong there for 12 oz cans and the rod needs to be in the middle hole in the front and rear of the rotor. Then, do you have an actual can side shim in it? That has a wide lip on the bottom where the bottle shim has just a 1/4" lip. By the way, what's up with all the effed up wiring? Edited July 19 by AZVendor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ignika98 Posted July 19 Author Share Posted July 19 1 hour ago, AZVendor said: It could also be related to having the red sleeves on the rod/spring. Those don't belong there for 12 oz cans and the rod needs to be in the middle hole in the front and rear of the rotor. What color sleeves should be on the rod? I did make sure that the rods are all in the middle holes. 1 hour ago, AZVendor said: By the way, what's up with all the effed up wiring? the wiring is temporary. It will be cleaned up once I verify that everything else in the machine is working properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZVendor Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 No sleeves for cans just the rods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ignika98 Posted July 31 Author Share Posted July 31 Alright, I'm back home. I messed around with the machine a bit tonight but still no luck on those narrow columns. On 7/18/2024 at 9:49 PM, AZVendor said: No sleeves for cans just the rods. Indeed, I took the sleeves off the rods but it didn't seem to make a difference. On 7/18/2024 at 8:26 PM, AZVendor said: Then, do you have an actual can side shim in it? That has a wide lip on the bottom where the bottle shim has just a 1/4" lip. Here's a picture of the shims I have. I'm pretty sure they are can shims. One of these is from column 3, which vends properly, and the other is from column 4, which doesn't. As you can see, they're identical. So it doesn't look like the shims are the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryChris Posted July 31 Share Posted July 31 Since columb 3 works fine as you say, vend column 3 and 4 until the cams are in the exact say position. If the rotors are in different positions, then one of them is upside down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ignika98 Posted August 1 Author Share Posted August 1 12 hours ago, AngryChris said: Since columb 3 works fine as you say, vend column 3 and 4 until the cams are in the exact say position. If the rotors are in different positions, then one of them is upside down. Here's what columns 3 and 4 look like respectively, along with the cams to show that they are indeed in the exact same position: It does appear that column 4 is in a slightly different position to column 3. Column 4 is at an almost perfect "half moon" position, where as column 3 is offset slightly. This would explain why column 4 (and presumably, all the other faulty columns) are getting stuck on the first vend, and double vending on the second. However, I don't know how to fix this. Rotating the cradle 180 degrees will just flip the entire thing. It doesn't seem to be upside down, just offset a bit too much such that the cans don't fall as they should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryChris Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 Still seems like rotors are upside down to me. This also seems like it was parts machine that was thrown together to try to make it work again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ignika98 Posted August 1 Author Share Posted August 1 1 hour ago, AngryChris said: Still seems like rotors are upside down to me. So what should I do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fermo Vending Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 Remove the motors, pull out the rotors, spin them 180 degrees and reattach the motor into the rotor. If that doesn't work you might have a wallowed out hole in the rotor fitting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vendo Mike Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 Correct me if I'm wrong but if the cradle were 180 out, the opening should be on the opposite side when homed. Is there a lot of slack in the cradle? Curious if you just have sloppy gearing in the vend motor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryChris Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 Yeah it's very possible that the rotors are in the right position but parts are just heavily worn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZVendor Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 Your side shims are correct for cans and the rotors are in the correct positions if the motors are respectfully from left to right, #3 and #4. The rotors will not be face up when reloaded because they will turn and stop just before they are to drop the front can. If you have the bare rod and springs in the middle holes at the ends of the rotors then you probably have worn out rotor drive holes in the front of the rotor. That would require a new or good used rotor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ignika98 Posted August 1 Author Share Posted August 1 3 hours ago, AZVendor said: Your side shims are correct for cans and the rotors are in the correct positions if the motors are respectfully from left to right, #3 and #4. The rotors will not be face up when reloaded because they will turn and stop just before they are to drop the front can. If you have the bare rod and springs in the middle holes at the ends of the rotors then you probably have worn out rotor drive holes in the front of the rotor. That would require a new or good used rotor. 7 hours ago, AngryChris said: Yeah it's very possible that the rotors are in the right position but parts are just heavily worn. Indeed, I took all the motors off and it does seem like there's some substantial wear on the rotors. I suppose I should order some new rotors, then? Or is there a way to repair the wear on the rotors without outright replacing them? Also, while I was taking out the motors I noticed that a the little plastic piece that connected to the rotor was twisted on a few of them. Unfortunately, I made the mistake of not paying attention to which motor came from what column as I was taking them off, so I don't know which columns had these twisted motors. Regardless, could this also be something that contributed to the problem? Would these need to be replaced as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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