Charity vending can ABSOLUTELY be ethical!

[ravending]

About 10 days or so ago I came across a post on here regarding "guerilla locating". At that time I came across it I didn't have time to post my own comment, and now for the life of me I can't seem to find that post. So I'm just going to create my own post in response to some comments made on it.

 

The person who made that post was saying (more or less it sounded like he was bragging) that one one the methods he uses when he locates his own machines is to go to a particular location and look around for other charity vending machines. Then he said he would go to the owner/ manager of the business and show them a copy of that particular charity's contract with the vendor showing the MINIMAL vending fee that the vendor has to pay to that particular charity, implying that that is what he thinks is all that is being given to that charity. So for example, NCCS has a $1.00 royalty fee per sticker, per month. So that is what he claims is all that that particular vendor is paying to NCCS. After he told them that, then he would offer to put his own machines in for a commission.

 

I want it to be very clearly understood by everyone in this vending forum that doing what this guy has been bragging about is illegal. Going around making false accustions about other people's businesses while destroying their's and building up your own business is something that can VERY EASILY get you sued out the wazoo for. Case after case example over the years has also shown that the courts virtually all of the time will side with the plantiff in something like this.  

 

I have a few hundred bulk candy machines and honor boxes and I use NCCS. I give much more than just the simple royalty fee because I believe in what I'm doing and I have had people in my own life that have passed on because of cancer. I do think that it is unethical to only pay the royalty fee for any type of charity vending and I have even heard of people who will even get discounts for thier stickers of whatever charity because they order over a certain number of them. Those people need to grow up. However, there are those of us who actually do this for a purpose other than to be selfish about it. If someone ever did this to me, they would be facing a MAJOR law suit.  

 

       

[caserri]

Here is a link to the thread in question. I believe the member you are talking about is ronsidney. Wasn't too hard to figure out since he tends to brag about everything.

http://vendiscuss.net/index.php?/topic/13546-does-anyone-ever-plop-a-machine-down-wo-permission-in-locations-with-lots-of-machines

[Rick]

I very clearly understand that you believe what he is doing is illegal.  You're wrong; but I understand you.  By showing the business owner the NCCS contract, a commission-paying vendor isn't making any statements about you as a human being or doing anything to your equipment. They are presenting the facts to the business owner and letting them make a decision for themselves.  A shrewd business move actually and nothing illegal or even unethical about it.  

 

Rav, you're very passionate about this subject.  So am I.  I've lost my mother and many others to cancer.  I do charity bulk and also use the NCCS.  I think it's a great cause.  But I do believe you're in the minority...the overwhelming minority, that pay more than the minimum amount to the charity.  And don't get me wrong, I have both charity and commission locations so I'm on your side.  

 

But since the beginning of time bulk vendors have been given the boot because a better offer comes along.  Don't blame the guy that comes along with a better commission/service/equipment.  

 

ETA:  Welcome to the forums, happy to have you!

[FrCorey]

Any charity that charges you for a license sticker is a SCAM.

Find a church and ask them if they will sponsor you for a percent of your sales.

then have some stickers made up that say, Our sales support so and so.

but get it in writing incase you are asked if this is true and/or keep this info in your van.

I am a priest and this is what the church does to support it self.

Our stickers say, Sales from this machine go to support St Benedicts Mission.

[Rick]

Any charity that charges you for a license sticker is a SCAM.

Find a church and ask them if they will sponsor you for a percent of your sales.

then have some stickers made up that say, Our sales support so and so.

but get it in writing incase you are asked if this is true and/or keep this info in your van.

I am a priest and this is what the church does to support it self.

Our stickers say, Sales from this machine go to support St Benedicts Mission.

 

LMFAO!

Cancer research is a SCAM!  I'm a priest.  Donate it to a church instead.  

 

Classic.  

[TexasFreemason]

I don't believe

 

LMFAO!

Cancer research is a SCAM!  I'm a priest.  Donate it to a church instead.  

 

Classic.  

I don't believe that that is what FrCorey said at all. He was not saying anything about the fact that it was cancer research.

When I started vending I thought about using my Masonic Lodge as the charity, but I found out that it was not allowed. We are not allowed to use the fraternity to advertise a business.

[Rick]

I don't believe that that is what FrCorey said at all.

 

"Any charity that charges you for a license sticker is a SCAM."

 

The National Children's Cancer Society charges you a fee per sticker.

 

The National Children's Cancer Society funds cancer research.  

[Makes Cents]

I am a charity vendor and I use NCCS. I donate the $1 per month per machine and I have no problem sleeping at night. If you are running a few hundred machines and donating a few hundred per month, thats a decent donation to help a charity in my book. If a commission vendor uses the tactic you are describing it is your duty as a charity vendor to educate the location owner by pointing out how much total you are donating each month and informing him/her there are many other vendors using the same charity outreach program and the combined effect results in substantial support to the charity. Re-educate him/her to the mission and accomplishments of the charity.

[sherlock]

[ravending]

If somebody comes through my area with the form from NCCS and the part that says a payment of $1.00 per sticker per month (MINIMUM), then they are IMPLYING that that would be all that I would be giving to NCCS. Even if they did not specifically say that that is all I give, they would be IMPLYING that that would be all I was giving and that would be plenty enough grounds for a very winnable lawsuit because they are making implied accusations about me that are false. I have a couple of friends who are lawyers who have told me this themselves, so no I am NOT WRONG about this at all Rick. If someone were to do this to me, I would be ready to hit them right now with a major lawsuit and have all I would need to bring everything including the kitchen sink with me. I also encourage anyone else reading this that if your business has been victimized by either this particular person or someone else in this manner then I encourage you to seek legal counsel and seek monetary compensation from them. 

 

BTW, NCCS was audited last year and 80% of total proceeds went to help the children, 15% went for fund raising costs and ONLY 5% went to those who worked at NCCS so I would definitely say that they are a VERY LEGITIMATE CHARITY ORGANIZATION. Therefore Fr Corey, you need to be careful about making over generalizations and implying acusations by saying "Any charity that charges you for a liscense sticker is a SCAM." Even as the Catholic church is now starting to see, parishoners of a church are not above the law (and for example, you can ask a number of priests who are now in prison for molesting children about that one.)

[havending]

About 10 days or so ago I came across a post on here regarding "guerilla locating". At that time I came across it I didn't have time to post my own comment, and now for the life of me I can't seem to find that post. So I'm just going to create my own post in response to some comments made on it.

The person who made that post was saying (more or less it sounded like he was bragging) that one one the methods he uses when he locates his own machines is to go to a particular location and look around for other charity vending machines. Then he said he would go to the owner/ manager of the business and show them a copy of that particular charity's contract with the vendor showing the MINIMAL vending fee that the vendor has to pay to that particular charity, implying that that is what he thinks is all that is being given to that charity. So for example, NCCS has a $1.00 royalty fee per sticker, per month. So that is what he claims is all that that particular vendor is paying to NCCS. After he told them that, then he would offer to put his own machines in for a commission.

I want it to be very clearly understood by everyone in this vending forum that doing what this guy has been bragging about is illegal. Going around making false accustions about other people's businesses while destroying their's and building up your own business is something that can VERY EASILY get you sued out the wazoo for. Case after case example over the years has also shown that the courts virtually all of the time will side with the plantiff in something like this.

I have a few hundred bulk candy machines and honor boxes and I use NCCS. I give much more than just the simple royalty fee because I believe in what I'm doing and I have had people in my own life that have passed on because of cancer. I do think that it is unethical to only pay the royalty fee for any type of charity vending and I have even heard of people who will even get discounts for thier stickers of whatever charity because they order over a certain number of them. Those people need to grow up. However, there are those of us who actually do this for a purpose other than to be selfish about it. If someone ever did this to me, they would be facing a MAJOR law suit.

I don't think you have a clue what your talking about. I keep copies of ALL national charities paperwork handy and if I'm in a location and the owner /manager tells me that the machine is owned by or serviced by the charity I inform them the basics of how charity works. Many charity operators and locators will lead the location to think that it's the charity's machine and ALL proceeds go to the charity. It sounds like you are doing it the right way and that's great. But if you think you can sue and operators because he informs a location how charity works or explained the min payment your crazy. We still live in a country with free speech. I suggest you build relationships with your locations and let them know what you do and how you help and you won't have an issue. Charity vending is good and helps a lot of folks. What hurts charity vending and really all vending is operators that lie to locations , don't pay tax or but insurance.

If somebody comes through my area with the form from NCCS and the part that says a payment of $1.00 per sticker per month (MINIMUM), then they are IMPLYING that that would be all that I would be giving to NCCS. Even if they did not specifically say that that is all I give, they would be IMPLYING that that would be all I was giving and that would be plenty enough grounds for a very winnable lawsuit because they are making implied accusations about me that are false. I have a couple of friends who are lawyers who have told me this themselves, so no I am NOT WRONG about this at all Rick. If someone were to do this to me, I would be ready to hit them right now with a major lawsuit and have all I would need to bring everything including the kitchen sink with me. I also encourage anyone else reading this that if your business has been victimized by either this particular person or someone else in this manner then I encourage you to seek legal counsel and seek monetary compensation from them.

BTW, NCCS was audited last year and 80% of total proceeds went to help the children, 15% went for fund raising costs and ONLY 5% went to those who worked at NCCS so I would definitely say that they are a VERY LEGITIMATE CHARITY ORGANIZATION. Therefore Fr Corey, you need to be careful about making over generalizations and implying acusations by saying "Any charity that charges you for a liscense sticker is a SCAM." Even as the Catholic church is now starting to see, parishoners of a church are not above the law (and for example, you can ask a number of priests who are now in prison for molesting children about that one.)

Where are you located ?

I am a charity vendor and I use NCCS. I donate the $1 per month per machine and I have no problem sleeping at night. If you are running a few hundred machines and donating a few hundred per month, thats a decent donation to help a charity in my book. If a commission vendor uses the tactic you are describing it is your duty as a charity vendor to educate the location owner by pointing out how much total you are donating each month and informing him/her there are many other vendors using the same charity outreach program and the combined effect results in substantial support to the charity. Re-educate him/her to the mission and accomplishments of the charity.

You build good relationships and are a good operator so you would not have to worry about that

If somebody comes through my area with the form from NCCS and the part that says a payment of $1.00 per sticker per month (MINIMUM), then they are IMPLYING that that would be all that I would be giving to NCCS. Even if they did not specifically say that that is all I give, they would be IMPLYING that that would be all I was giving and that would be plenty enough grounds for a very winnable lawsuit because they are making implied accusations about me that are false. I have a couple of friends who are lawyers who have told me this themselves, so no I am NOT WRONG about this at all Rick. If someone were to do this to me, I would be ready to hit them right now with a major lawsuit and have all I would need to bring everything including the kitchen sink with me. I also encourage anyone else reading this that if your business has been victimized by either this particular person or someone else in this manner then I encourage you to seek legal counsel and seek monetary compensation from them.

BTW, NCCS was audited last year and 80% of total proceeds went to help the children, 15% went for fund raising costs and ONLY 5% went to those who worked at NCCS so I would definitely say that they are a VERY LEGITIMATE CHARITY ORGANIZATION. Therefore Fr Corey, you need to be careful about making over generalizations and implying acusations by saying "Any charity that charges you for a liscense sticker is a SCAM." Even as the Catholic church is now starting to see, parishoners of a church are not above the law (and for example, you can ask a number of priests who are now in prison for molesting children about that one.)

You think you can sue over what you think some one implied? Lol. Steve check the. IP I think some one is playing games with us.

[Toad]

I agree with HaVending, ra must be fake, nobody is that ignorant. Beating a dead horse and stiring the pot

[Grazing Hippo Vending]

Ravending you are being an absolute hypocrite here. On one hand you are threatening a lawsuit on people who IMPLY that you are only giving $1 per machine per month BUT one could now argue that YOU are implying that ALL Catholic Church parishoners are above the law. The problem is that anyone can feel that they are a victim in any circumstance. I really think you need to lighten up.

I would venture to say that every vendor here has family or friends that have been stricken with cancer and everyone understands how tough that is. NCCS is a great organization to donate money to. If I go into one of your locations and only show the business owner the EXACT literature that NCCS provides, then I have done nothing illegal. The shop owner can easily go to the NCCS website and see what the stickers cost every month. It's not private information.

People that threaten lawsuits all the time are generally weak individuals. Who cares that you give extra money to NCCS? What makes you think that you have some inherent right to location because of the "extra" money you give to NCCS? Would you threaten me with a lawsuit if I walked into one of "your" locations, offered them a commission, AND so them how much money I have donated to the Wounded Warrior project or to the Red Cross? Point is lots of us give thousands of dollars a year above and beyond what we pay in charity stickers. Not all of us feel like we need to advertise it to the world.

In a nutshell I think that you should give as much as you want to whatever charity you want and stop acting like a tough guy with your "lawsuit" talk. Control YOUR business and stop trying to control the way I run MY business.

[Action Vending]

 

 

I want it to be very clearly understood by everyone in this vending forum that doing what this guy has been bragging about is illegal. Going around making false accustions about other people's businesses while destroying their's and building up your own business is something that can VERY EASILY get you sued out the wazoo for. Case after case example over the years has also shown that the courts virtually all of the time will side with the plantiff in something like this.  

 

 

Everything in this paragraph is false. 

[ravending]

EXCUSE ME ACTION VENDING...........ARE YOU A LAWYER????????

 

I personally know a couple lawyers myself whom I have spoken to directly about this particular thing with who happen to be very successful in their profession and they have explained to me THAT THIS IS ILLEGAL.

 

If you care to test your theory while not being educated as a lawman yourself, then I suggest that you come to where I live and try testing your theory out. I would hit you with everything including the kitchen sink as far as a lawsuit went and probably make you wish that you had never gone into the vending business to begin with. What you think is right makes absolutely no difference to what the rule of law says and if you think you're above the law then come on and find out what happens to you.

[Action Vending]

EXCUSE ME ACTION VENDING...........ARE YOU A LAWYER? ? ? ? ?

 

I personally know a couple lawyers myself whom I have spoken to directly about this particular thing with who happen to be very successful in their profession and they have explained to me THAT THIS IS ILLEGAL.

 

If you care to test your theory while not being educated as a lawman yourself, then I suggest that you come to where I live and try testing your theory out. I would hit you with everything including the kitchen sink as far as a lawsuit went and probably make you wish that you had never gone into the vending business to begin with. What you think is right makes absolutely no difference to what the rule of law says and if you think you're above the law then come on and find out what happens to you.

Ok where are your routes?

[Grazing Hippo Vending]

EXCUSE ME ACTION VENDING...........ARE YOU A LAWYER????????

 

I personally know a couple lawyers myself whom I have spoken to directly about this particular thing with who happen to be very successful in their profession and they have explained to me THAT THIS IS ILLEGAL.

 

If you care to test your theory while not being educated as a lawman yourself, then I suggest that you come to where I live and try testing your theory out. I would hit you with everything including the kitchen sink as far as a lawsuit went and probably make you wish that you had never gone into the vending business to begin with. What you think is right makes absolutely no difference to what the rule of law says and if you think you're above the law then come on and find out what happens to you.

Telling us what your lawyer friends told you is hearsay.

EXCUSE ME ACTION VENDING...........ARE YOU A LAWYER????????

 

I personally know a couple lawyers myself whom I have spoken to directly about this particular thing with who happen to be very successful in their profession and they have explained to me THAT THIS IS ILLEGAL.

 

If you care to test your theory while not being educated as a lawman yourself, then I suggest that you come to where I live and try testing your theory out. I would hit you with everything including the kitchen sink as far as a lawsuit went and probably make you wish that you had never gone into the vending business to begin with. What you think is right makes absolutely no difference to what the rule of law says and if you think you're above the law then come on and find out what happens to you.

In the Army people who profess to know everything but generally give poor advice are referred to as "Barracks Lawyers". Sort of seems to fit here as we'll.

[ravending]

Grazing Hippo Vending - I did not say that all Catholic Churches are a scam. Whereas Fr Corey specifically stated that "Any charity that charges you for a liscense sticker is a SCAM". So he is the one making the generalizations and false accusations here, not me.

 

I am standing up here right now for charity organizations that TRULY DO work to help MANY, MANY people (why don't you ask the charity organizations who sponsor this yourself?). The people who engage in this type of behavior by kicking out the charity vendors in order to place their own machines for commission AREN'T HELPING ANYONE BUT THEMSELVES. So if threating lawsuits is what it takes to make this type of activity stop, then so be it. 

[ravending]

I'm in Washington DC, Action Vending. Step on up here and try that with me. I've got a couple of lawyer friends who would take this on simply on contingency basis and they know the federal system like the back of their hand. Guaranteed you try this with me, you will be paying me for a very long time.  

[havending]

Grazing Hippo Vending - I did not say that all Catholic Churches are a scam. Whereas Fr Corey specifically stated that "Any charity that charges you for a liscense sticker is a SCAM". So he is the one making the generalizations and false accusations here, not me.

I am standing up here right now for charity organizations that TRULY DO work to help MANY, MANY people (why don't you ask the charity organizations who sponsor this yourself?). The people who engage in this type of behavior by kicking out the charity vendors in order to place their own machines for commission AREN'T HELPING ANYONE BUT THEMSELVES. So if threating lawsuits is what it takes to make this type of activity stop, then so be it.

You don't scare a sole here my friend. Your just blowing smoke.

[ravending]

Grazing Hippo Vending, my lawyer friends have read everything that has been written by you guys on TVF about this particular thing and they know EXACTLY what they are talking about so it hasn't come through "heresay" as you claim but them actually reading the exact posts that have been left on here. Also, civil court in this country is quite a bit different than criminal court. In civil court, heresay is FAR MORE allowable to be used as evidence anyway.

[Grazing Hippo Vending]

Grazing Hippo Vending - I did not say that all Catholic Churches are a scam. Whereas Fr Corey specifically stated that "Any charity that charges you for a liscense sticker is a SCAM". So he is the one making the generalizations and false accusations here, not me.

 

I am standing up here right now for charity organizations that TRULY DO work to help MANY, MANY people (why don't you ask the charity organizations who sponsor this yourself?). The people who engage in this type of behavior by kicking out the charity vendors in order to place their own machines for commission AREN'T HELPING ANYONE BUT THEMSELVES. So if threating lawsuits is what it takes to make this type of activity stop, then so be it.

So now you are further IMPLYING that someone who operates commission locations ONLY help themselves. I suppose they don't help the business owner by paying commission, the store where they buy their vending products, the charities that they donate to on their own, their children that they send to college......You Sir seem to need a lesson in Economics!

[Action Vending]

Grazing Hippo Vending, my lawyer friends have read everything that has been written by you guys on TVF about this particular thing and they know EXACTLY what they are talking about so it hasn't come through "heresay" as you claim but them actually reading the exact posts that have been left on here. Also, civil court in this country is quite a bit different than criminal court. In civil court, heresay is FAR MORE allowable to be used as evidence anyway.

Its obvious you have never been in a court room or understand anything about the judicial process. 

[ravending]

Well then back it up then Havening, don't just spout off if you aren't scared, put your "money where your mouth is". As for myself, I KNOW DEFINITEVELY THAT WHAT I AM SAYING IS 100% ACCURATE BECAUSE I'M JUST SERVING RIGHT NOW AS BASICALLY JUST A MESSENGER IN ITSELF. This is what my lawyer friends have told me and this is what I am telling you all. Since I VERY SERIOUSLY DOUBT that any of you have ever studied law before and they have devoted their ENTIRE CAREERS TO STUDYING IT, I KNOW EXACTLY WHO I WOULD PUT MY MONEY ON. That would be like the Little Creek Pee Wee football team (you guys) against the Denver Broncos (them) and it doesn't take much sense to figure out who would win that one.

Also, given the scenario of walking into any of my locations with one of your contract charity forms and thinking that it would just be "heresay evidence" in court and that they could never possibly use it because you guys just think that they wouldn't, think again. What would happen is that the owner of the business would be called to testify specifically BASED ON WHAT YOU HAD SAID TO THAT OWNER and when that owner tesitified in court that you had communicated to them the false accusation that I was only paying $1.00 per month, per sticker, in all probability, you would lose the case. you need to understand that civil court is MUCH different than criminal court.

[Grazing Hippo Vending]

Well then back it up then Havening, don't just spout off if you aren't scared, put your "money where your mouth is". As for myself, I KNOW DEFINITEVELY THAT WHAT I AM SAYING IS 100% ACCURATE BECAUSE I'M JUST SERVING RIGHT NOW AS BASICALLY JUST A MESSENGER IN ITSELF. This is what my lawyer friends have told me and this is what I am telling you all. Since I VERY SERIOUSLY DOUBT that any of you have ever studied law before and they have devoted their ENTIRE CAREERS TO STUDYING IT, I KNOW EXACTLY WHO I WOULD PUT MY MONEY ON. That would be like the Little Creek Pee Wee football team (you guys) against the Denver Broncos (them) and it doesn't take much sense to figure out who would win that one.Also, given the scenario of walking into any of my locations with one of your contract charity forms and thinking that it would just be "heresay evidence" in court and that they could never possibly use it because you guys just think that they wouldn't, think again. What would happen is that the owner of the business would be called to testify specifically BASED ON WHAT YOU HAD SAID TO THAT OWNER and when that owner tesitified in court that you had communicated to them the false accusation that I was only paying $1.00 per month, per sticker, in all probability, you would lose the case. you need to understand that civil court is MUCH different than criminal court.

If I donated $1 for every time you said "my lawyer friends" then I would be in the soup line for my Thanksgiving supper