meis Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 I am considering purchased a vending route that consists of 15 locations with 22 machines. Unfortunately the machines are the Antares combo machines. From reading thru posts on this forum the general consensus seems to be that the machines are worthless. The machines are believed to be 10 years old - at least 3 are not cooling. I am afraid I would be replacing all machines within the year. With this in mind - how do you put a value on the route. The seller claims they gross 1,800 to 2,400 per month with roughly 10 hours a month servicing the machines. If I did purchase this route - what smaller combo machines would you recommend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TKK Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Id pass entirely this machines are junk. They stop cooling or they starr freezing certain selections etc. U have to constantly refil the changers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryChris Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 I wouldn't believe anything they say unless they had a tax return to prove their figures. 1800-2400 is a huge gap so I would assume the seller is pulling a number out of thin air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZVendor Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Welcome to the forum. It's good that you are asking the question before you spend any money. You will not enjoy the Antares machines as they are very limited in what they can do and they do have cooling issues. The freon lines run inside the cabinet walls and the lines react with the insulation which causes pinholes in the lines that you can't access. In my experience some of the units can be recharged with freon but many don't work after adding gas and that then means they are junk. There is no organized support for the machines though there have been millions of them sold in the US so you can always find parts on Fleabay. I can't put any value on the machines and it's something that you will have to grapple with if you really want to buy them. Just so long as you know what you're getting into. And no, there aren't any smaller combo machines that we would recommend. Anything that's for small accounts in the size of the Antares machines are all imported and unsupported - basically a different kind of junk machine. The only combo machines we would ever recommend are from Automatic Products, Crane/National or USI and they are probably going to cost you more than any of the locations you buy would be worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryChris Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Welcome to the forum. It's good that you are asking the question before you spend any money. You will not enjoy the Antares machines as they are very limited in what they can do and they do have cooling issues. The freon lines run inside the cabinet walls and the lines react with the insulation which causes pinholes in the lines that you can't access. In my experience some of the units can be recharged with freon but many don't work after adding gas and that then means they are junk. There is no organized support for the machines though there have been millions of them sold in the US so you can always find parts on Fleabay. I can't put any value on the machines and it's something that you will have to grapple with if you really want to buy them. Just so long as you know what you're getting into. And no, there aren't any smaller combo machines that we would recommend. Anything that's for small accounts in the size of the Antares machines are all imported and unsupported - basically a different kind of junk machine. The only combo machines we would ever recommend are from Automatic Products, Crane/National or USI and they are probably going to cost you more than any of the locations you buy would be worth. and AMS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meis Posted February 8, 2015 Author Share Posted February 8, 2015 Thank you for your advice!! Much appreciated!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allen watson Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Will this be your first route or do you have others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meis Posted February 8, 2015 Author Share Posted February 8, 2015 It would be my first route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moondog Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 I am considering purchased a vending route that consists of 15 locations with 22 machines. Unfortunately the machines are the Antares combo machines. From reading thru posts on this forum the general consensus seems to be that the machines are worthless. The machines are believed to be 10 years old - at least 3 are not cooling. I am afraid I would be replacing all machines within the year. With this in mind - how do you put a value on the route. The seller claims they gross 1,800 to 2,400 per month with roughly 10 hours a month servicing the machines. If I did purchase this route - what smaller combo machines would you recommend. Before passing on this deal entirely, take a hard look at the locations themselves. If they're a bunch of white collar offices then pass but if some of them are blue collar warehousing or manufacturing they could be golden with the right equipment. Should you proceed with this be prepared to replace all the Antares crap ASAP and maybe lose a few bottom feeder accounts. $2,400 a month for 15 locations is not good unless you're running gumball machines. And never consider any account that only wants a combo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meis Posted February 9, 2015 Author Share Posted February 9, 2015 My responses have a delay because I am new to this site so my posts still require monitoring. A big Thank YOU!! goes out to everyone who shared their thoughts with me. Moondog: The locations are a mix between office and manufacturing. I can see the blue collar businesses are generating more income. There is one office that was pretty large. It seemed that was a good location too. All of the locations are within a 5 mile radius except for one. But that one was located close to my bank and close to a Sam's. I was thinking the smaller locations would be okay to service since they are close to bigger accounts or in areas I'm going to be in anyways. When I began this post I was considering making an offer on this business. After more research I have decided I cannot make an offer. I believe I left the owner with the impression that I am still open to the idea but the asking price would need to be dramatically lowered. Maybe I should have made an offer - but I'I didn't want to offend the owner. Unfortunately I feel this owner is trying to get off of a sinking ship. It boiled down to this....the asking price is overpriced considering the machines involved. I would have to make another substantial investment into machines. I'm not sure how to figure returns on investments...but I could see that the business income wasn't enough to absorb the cost of new machines. At least not for years to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allen watson Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Several years ago a friend of mine went to a Antares business presentation and walked away with 3 brand new Antares and 3 guaranteed accounts for $10,000. Then goes and buys 7 more. Needless to say he is working at Home Depot and not operating any vending machines at this time. He used his savings to pay them off then ended up giving them away and the locations just to get out from under it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allen watson Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 It would be my first route. You are going about it in a good way. Keep doing what you are doing and you will find the right route at a decent price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moondog Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 My responses have a delay because I am new to this site so my posts still require monitoring. A big Thank YOU!! goes out to everyone who shared their thoughts with me. Moondog: The locations are a mix between office and manufacturing. I can see the blue collar businesses are generating more income. There is one office that was pretty large. It seemed that was a good location too. All of the locations are within a 5 mile radius except for one. But that one was located close to my bank and close to a Sam's. I was thinking the smaller locations would be okay to service since they are close to bigger accounts or in areas I'm going to be in anyways. When I began this post I was considering making an offer on this business. After more research I have decided I cannot make an offer. I believe I left the owner with the impression that I am still open to the idea but the asking price would need to be dramatically lowered. Maybe I should have made an offer - but I'I didn't want to offend the owner. Unfortunately I feel this owner is trying to get off of a sinking ship. It boiled down to this....the asking price is overpriced considering the machines involved. I would have to make another substantial investment into machines. I'm not sure how to figure returns on investments...but I could see that the business income wasn't enough to absorb the cost of new machines. At least not for years to come. You never said what he was asking but I would definitely consider putting a full sized soda machine and snack machine in the manufacturing locations. The thing is, you really don't know how much business these places would generate until you get the proper equipment in there and Office Delis ain't it. Those machines are too small to handle a good account unless you're filling them every other day. I have never had any luck with office locations - had an auto body center with 20 employees completely blow away a whole floor full of 100 secretaries in terms of sales. Every time I'd go in there they had the whole lunch room full of free baked goods - tough to compete with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryChris Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 You never said what he was asking but I would definitely consider putting a full sized soda machine and snack machine in the manufacturing locations. The thing is, you really don't know how much business these places would generate until you get the proper equipment in there and Office Delis ain't it. Those machines are too small to handle a good account unless you're filling them every other day. I have never had any luck with office locations - had an auto body center with 20 employees completely blow away a whole floor full of 100 secretaries in terms of sales. Every time I'd go in there they had the whole lunch room full of free baked goods - tough to compete with that. Office worker logic: you would sell more stuff if you gave it away for free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meis Posted February 10, 2015 Author Share Posted February 10, 2015 The original asking price was $30,000. Once I inquired the price dropped to $25,000 because she noticed 2 machines not cooling. When I went on the route with her she admitted that a third machine was not cooling. I would have liked to have offered $5,000 but I was worried I would offend her. Her books are a mess. Either she doesn't know how to properly account her business or she is trying to be deceitful. I requested tax returns when I asked for bank records....she only gave me bank records and they do not match her profit and loss statements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 So poor accounts, poor equipment and poor record keeping. $5000 would offend her AND it's probably close to the actual value. I'd tell her I can appreciate that you're trying to sell the route as a package deal. But to be honest, I'm not interested in the equipment or most of the locations. There's just not enough meat on the bone there. If you're ever willing to sell the locations only I might be interested in a few of them - give me a call. That keeps the line of communication open and after she gets hammered by enough experienced vendors telling her to stop wasting their time she might reach out. This can be a good way of picking up 2-3 solid spots. I know it sounds cheesy but become a confidant for her until she gets exhausted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meis Posted February 10, 2015 Author Share Posted February 10, 2015 Good idea, Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moondog Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 So poor accounts, poor equipment and poor record keeping. $5000 would offend her AND it's probably close to the actual value. I'd tell her I can appreciate that you're trying to sell the route as a package deal. But to be honest, I'm not interested in the equipment or most of the locations. There's just not enough meat on the bone there. If you're ever willing to sell the locations only I might be interested in a few of them - give me a call. That keeps the line of communication open and after she gets hammered by enough experienced vendors telling her to stop wasting their time she might reach out. This can be a good way of picking up 2-3 solid spots. I know it sounds cheesy but become a confidant for her until she gets exhausted. Not cheesy at all Rick, it's the only way I'd approach this mess. 30k is bordering upon insanity for this pile of crap and until she realizes that I wouldn't go any further with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feral Vending Mechanic Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Several years ago a friend of mine went to a Antares business presentation and walked away with 3 brand new Antares and 3 guaranteed accounts for $10,000. Then goes and buys 7 more. Needless to say he is working at Home Depot and not operating any vending machines at this time. He used his savings to pay them off then ended up giving them away and the locations just to get out from under it all. The thing that I hate the most about my chosen profession is the proliferation of biz op scammers that operate at it's periphery. I've talked to so many people who have been taken in by sweet talking scammers. I'm not an owner operator, I'm just a vending mechanic. But I love the business. And so, I'm always talking to people that I meet out and about. I see an old guy going into a building with a tiny cart loaded with supplies and some cans of soda, and I strike up a conversation. And he tells me about dropping 50k, his life's savings on some stupid, tiny combo machines, that'll take decades to recoup his investment. And I want to punch the guy who scammed him right in the gopher. Vending is a great business. But you can't get anywhere with crap machines. I ended up fixing a couple of problems with the guy's machines, for free, because I felt bad. Ultimately, we are a community. I'm only here because I love vending, and I love helping people. I've put in my 10,000 hours to get really good at a thing, and I want to share my knowledge. But I'd still like to punch biz op scammers right in the gopher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allen watson Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 The thing that I hate the most about my chosen profession is the proliferation of biz op scammers that operate at it's periphery. I've talked to so many people who have been taken in by sweet talking scammers. I'm not an owner operator, I'm just a vending mechanic. But I love the business. And so, I'm always talking to people that I meet out and about. I see an old guy going into a building with a tiny cart loaded with supplies and some cans of soda, and I strike up a conversation. And he tells me about dropping 50k, his life's savings on some stupid, tiny combo machines, that'll take decades to recoup his investment. And I want to punch the guy who scammed him right in the gopher. Vending is a great business. But you can't get anywhere with crap machines. I ended up fixing a couple of problems with the guy's machines, for free, because I felt bad. Ultimately, we are a community. I'm only here because I love vending, and I love helping people. I've put in my 10,000 hours to get really good at a thing, and I want to share my knowledge. But I'd still like to punch biz op scammers right in the gopher. I hear you. I tried to tell him but he got all butt hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdsVending Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 I purchased a route that had 10 office deli machines for 11k. Sales were about 24,000 for the year. I few of the locations I upgraded the equipment and have seen about a 20% increase in sales. Remember that when you purchase a route like this it is possible that some of the locations are a diamond in the rough. I also purchased an account with 3 locations that was doing about 80-100 per week. It had equivalents to the Antares machines. I put better equipment in there and the sales nearly doubled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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