Royal Merlin 4 any good?

[tblake05]

Kind of in a crunch here guys. Had a company contact me in regards to taking over they’re vending. They aren’t pleased by the current vendor. Manufacturing shop with loading docks and 45 employees.

Of course I said yes. Catch is I have to be in by next Wednesday. The equipment currently there is pretty beat up.

but all I have access to right now is a usi 5 wide mdb, which I have many of and like. And a soda machine I found a refurbed Merlin 4 for 850. Both the Merlin and my usi snack are nicer than what’s here now. So not worried about that.

I just don’t know about the Merlin. Never had one. Will it be ok for a while until I can upgrade? And what is a decent price?

They currently have 16.9 ounce selling at 1.50 a bottle. Can the Merlin vend 16.9 reliably?

and is it MDB? They want payrange.

quick thoughts please. Don’t want to miss this machine if it’s a fairly decent one as any machines are hard to come by around here.

thanks!

[orsd]

Merlin IVs are decent machines. I like them but they aren’t too common.

Only potential downside is future parts availability. Royal is IFAIK still selling parts. But if they stop there aren’t a huge number of Merlins out there so parts are going to be iffy.

But they are fairly reliable machines so you shouldn’t need too many parts.

Most of them are MDB with card reader capability but if yours is an older one and isn’t an EPROM should fix you right up.

[tblake05]

It is mdb. At least by the mech and validator it is.

I may use it at least for now.

thanks!!

[tblake05]

Another question, Can the Merlin IV report cash sales?  I bet not because IIRC, AZ said is uses the same control board as a CB700.  And I know the CB700's I have will not.  Kitting would be out.  I may pass on it just for that reason.

[Southeast Treats]

I have never had a problem with the Royal's reporting data....

 

[AngryChris]

44 minutes ago, tblake05 said:

Another question, Can the Merlin IV report cash sales?  I bet not because IIRC, AZ said is uses the same control board as a CB700.  And I know the CB700's I have will not.  Kitting would be out.  I may pass on it just for that reason.

It depends on what board is in it.  The really old boards don't. The "middle child" boards won't if their EPROM is -4 or lower and EPROM won't fix it, but the same board (which isn't really exactly the same) can report sales if it's -5 or higher but may need an EPROM upgrade.  And the latest boards work fine

[tblake05]

So -5 version or higher will report but may need an updated eeprom. got it, thanks!

[tblake05]

10 minutes ago, Southeast Treats said:

I have never had a problem with the Royal's reporting data....

 

Do you run Merlin IV's?

[darkinthepark]

I have 1 Merlin IV and it works fine for me.  I paid 500 for it, but 800 isn't bad if it's in good shape.  Royal still has parts for them.  Mine didn't report cash sales until I had Coinco update the Eprom on the board...now it reports fine.  You may need to get the bottle shims if you vend 16.9 bottles.

[AngryChris]

17 hours ago, darkinthepark said:

I have 1 Merlin IV and it works fine for me.  I paid 500 for it, but 800 isn't bad if it's in good shape.  Royal still has parts for them.  Mine didn't report cash sales until I had Coinco update the Eprom on the board...now it reports fine.  You may need to get the bottle shims if you vend 16.9 bottles.

merlin 4 doesn't use shims for standard size packaging.  You just set the depth

[darkinthepark]

10 hours ago, AngryChris said:

merlin 4 doesn't use shims for standard size packaging.  You just set the depth

I used the bottle shims on most 16 oz bottles on my Merlin IV and it worked fine.  It would sometimes squeeze out 2 bottles without the shim.

[AngryChris]

3 hours ago, darkinthepark said:

I used the bottle shims on most 16 oz bottles on my Merlin IV and it worked fine.  It would sometimes squeeze out 2 bottles without the shim.

You must be confusing the Merlin 4 with a different machine.  There's no way 2 bottles could come out at once.  The columns are only one deep on bottles.  The Merlin 4 typically has 12 columns, 6 in front and 6 in back.  A DN 501e requires shims and you could definitely vend two bottles at once with the wrong setup.

[AngryChris]

Just now, AngryChris said:

You must be confusing the Merlin 4 with a different machine.  There's no way 2 bottles could come out at once.  The columns are only one deep on bottles.  The Merlin 4 typically has 12 columns, 6 in front and 6 in back.  A DN 501e requires shims and you could definitely vend two bottles at once with the wrong setup.

 

[darkinthepark]

7 hours ago, AngryChris said:

 

No confusion.  Are you aware of the bottle shim that is available for the Merlin4 or have you never seen it Chris?  Why do you think Royal made the shim?

[tblake05]

Easy guys, I'm gonna try 16.9 without shims.  If It jams or double vends I'll buy some.  No big deal.

[Southeast Treats]

There is a shim for the older royal, the one with individual column motors (not the chain drive).  It's not used very often but it keeps the smaller bottles from jamming.  I also use it to vend 12 oz red bull.  It's not needed for standard 12 oz cans or 20 oz bottles...

[AngryChris]

I could be wrong here, but this is my understanding.  ALL Merlin IVs have individual motors for each column, and Merlin IVs are not the "older versions" of the chain driven models.  Rather, the chain driven models are GIII.  The G3 and the Merlin 4 are 100% two different designs, even though they have a lot of similarities.  The refrigeration is the same but much else is different.  I believe royal was selling the Merlin 4 brand new just a few years ago before they stopped all production.  Having said all of that...

.. I have vended 16.9 oz Cumberland gap and various bottle shapes without issue.  I never needed a shim.  The G3 has a built-in shim design with rods.  There is also a Merlin 3 and a G2 which I don't know much about. And a Merlin 2000 which was their first multiprice vendor designed for cans.  I have about a dozen Merlin 4 vendors and all have individual motors and no shims.  I don't see how it's possible to vend two bottles at once in a royal of that era.  You can't fit two bottles in the rotors at the same time.

[AngryChris]

Also, USI makes a 16.9 oz shimfor their vendors which are very similar to a Merlin 4 in column design, and those shims are almost exclusively for soft 16.9 oz water bottles.  I see nothing in the Merlin 4 manual for any shims whatsoever.  I'm not saying they don't exist, but I'm not finding evidence to support the idea that you may need shims for 16.9 oz bottles, even though 16.9 oz bottles aren't really made for vending anyway.

[darkinthepark]

2 hours ago, AngryChris said:

I could be wrong here, but this is my understanding.  ALL Merlin IVs have individual motors for each column, and Merlin IVs are not the "older versions" of the chain driven models.  Rather, the chain driven models are GIII.  The G3 and the Merlin 4 are 100% two different designs, even though they have a lot of similarities.  The refrigeration is the same but much else is different.  I believe royal was selling the Merlin 4 brand new just a few years ago before they stopped all production.  Having said all of that...

.. I have vended 16.9 oz Cumberland gap and various bottle shapes without issue.  I never needed a shim.  The G3 has a built-in shim design with rods.  There is also a Merlin 3 and a G2 which I don't know much about. And a Merlin 2000 which was their first multiprice vendor designed for cans.  I have about a dozen Merlin 4 vendors and all have individual motors and no shims.  I don't see how it's possible to vend two bottles at once in a royal of that era.  You can't fit two bottles in the rotors at the same time.

You are correct that only the giii machines have the chain motors in them and all merlin ivs have 12 columns with individual motors.  I use the shims for squishy water bottles and smaller 16 oz bittles like arizona tea.  Royal still sells the merlin shims...which is where I got my shims from.  If your machines are vending fine without the shims then you are ok...but if you ever have an issue reach out to Royal and get a few shims.  They are cheap and easy to install. 

[AngryChris]

Oh I see.  I don't sell the squishy bottles.  All of mine are firm.  Still, no shims are needed for standard package sizes as the squishy stuff isn't really made for vending.

[darkinthepark]

1 hour ago, AngryChris said:

Oh I see.  I don't sell the squishy bottles.  All of mine are firm.  Still, no shims are needed for standard package sizes as the squishy stuff isn't really made for vending.

You're right, the bottles aren't made for vending...but the profit margins are fantastic.

[NevilleW]

Hi Guys, we run 30+ Royal Merlin IVs down here in Australia.

Great workhorses & very reliable - we need various shims here depending on what product we sell. Firmware up to Vers 12 now, find we need this latest version if using a 6 tube Mech. Earleir versions won't recognise the 6 tubes so keep the correct tube lamp on.

We do occasionally have problems with double vending - most probable cause is drop sensor not adjusted correctly & doesn't sense can/bottle dropping shute.

Products we use range from 250ml can V/Red Bull to 600ml PET.

Mostly fitted with Nayax VPOST & a few Seed cashless devices.

[codyp]

On 4/8/2022 at 9:03 AM, AngryChris said:

It depends on what board is in it.  The really old boards don't. The "middle child" boards won't if their EPROM is -4 or lower and EPROM won't fix it, but the same board (which isn't really exactly the same) can report sales if it's -5 or higher but may need an EPROM upgrade.  And the latest boards work fine

Chris, how can I identify which board I have? 

 

I have a Merlin IV I'm looking to get reading cash sales so I can pre kit (there's a snack there now that reads cash, I keep the drink quite full, and note the missing bottles and bring extra the next time, but it isn't ideal) 

 

 

[AZVendor]

Bring extra the next time?  That's a foolish way to run your route.  Just bring what you think it needs or what all it can hold and refill it.  You can ID the board by looking at the eprom that has the version number on it ending in -4 or -5.

[codyp]

10 hours ago, AZVendor said:

Bring extra the next time?  That's a foolish way to run your route.  Just bring what you think it needs or what all it can hold and refill it.  You can ID the board by looking at the eprom that has the version number on it ending in -4 or -5.

Lmao Merry Christmas 

It was an anecdotal comment for some clarity. I'll try to be less foolish just for you in '25.  I do generally have extra on me. But if cash sales crush a specific product way more than expected I may not have enough on me to fully fill it.

Thanks for the info on board identification,