Favorite Vending Business Course

[atracy]

Any favorite vending business courses?  I'm sure I can spend the time researching everything on my own which I've already started to do but I feel like a course would be a better use of my time and I don't mind paying for one.

[lacanteen]

https://namanow.org/

[tblake05]

Hands on.

[AZVendor]

Go get a job filling vending machines - and don't rip off the operator.

[atracy]

Fortunately for me I have a 50-60hr/week W2 that pays very well as well as out of state rental properties so my time is very limited and I can't commit to learning from an operator on the job.  The plan is to build and run the business from home while my wife who is a stay at home mom with two little ones goes in the middle of the day to fill the machines.  This is why I'm looking for an online course I can learn from when work is slow or late in the evenings.

[tblake05]

Ha, sounds familiar (like me).  just jump right in, hope you can swim!

[AngryChris]

On 8/23/2023 at 3:51 PM, atracy said:

Fortunately for me I have a 50-60hr/week W2 that pays very well as well as out of state rental properties so my time is very limited 

Then why would you want to get into this???  I understand your "plan" but I'll tell you right now, it doesn't sound like a good plan.  Why exactly are your goals? 

[AZVendor]

So his wife won't be bored while taking care of their children.

[tblake05]

So many people think it’s super easy and all you do is stock soda and chips. I was one of them until I got into the biz.

[atracy]

For the last four years my wife has been a stay at home mom.  We get by on my salary and investments but we're not really moving forward financially.  Our youngest will be starting daycare soon so it's time for my wife to go back to work.  She can probably make around $50k/year at a 40hr/week job but we'd be scrambling in the mornings/evenings to get them to and from school plus activities.  I'm looking to purchase a business that she can work 20-25/hrs a week (4-5hrs a day) and make around $40k-$50k/year.  We've looked into different kinds of food routes, mini mailbox store, and a few other small businesses we can purchase and she can be present at in the middle of the day and do the paperwork in the evenings after the kids are down.  I can also help run the business part of it from home and she can do all of the day to day tasks.  Vending seems to be the best for freedom of schedule.  This will be a serious business for us that we plan on investing a good amount of money into.  We're not the "let's buy a $500 machine off of facebook, put it in one location, and make a lot of money like they do on youtube dreamers".  We're also not dreaming about making six figures out of this business, just a nice part time job that can help bring in a little extra income.  This is why I'm looking for a course that can help consolidate information, show us what kinds of licenses/business structures work well, and maybe learn a few extra things I might have missed in my research.  I do understand many times you can throw that all out the window once you actually get into it and learning by doing is the best way to do it.  I spent two years studying real estate investing before I purchased my first rental property so I'm used to lots of studying first, then learn by doing after.

[tblake05]

51 minutes ago, atracy said:

.....I'm looking to purchase a business that she can work 20-25/hrs a week (4-5hrs a day) and make around $40k-$50k/year.

Work part time, 4-5 Hours a day and make 40-50k a year.....(especially in the vending biz)....  Good luck.  Heck,  my wife and I spend 4-5 hours a day combined doing just vending related every day right now with 25ish machines.  lucky LUCKY if we net 20k a year.

Dreaming my friend.  DREAMING!  Carry on what your doing, or send the kids to daycare and your wife to work full time.  Especially if she can jump back into working and earn 50k a year to start.

My two cents.

[atracy]

7 minutes ago, tblake05 said:

Work part time, 4-5 Hours a day and make 40-50k a year.....(especially in the vending biz)....  Good luck.  Heck,  my wife and I spend 4-5 hours a day combined doing just vending related every day right now with 25ish machines.  lucky LUCKY if we net 20k a year.

Dreaming my friend.  DREAMING!  Carry on what your doing, or send the kids to daycare and your wife to work full time.  Especially if she can jump back into working and earn 50k a year to start.

My two cents.

Wow, so you guys are each working 20-25hrs a week and lucky to net $10k a year each ($20k combined)?  You do realize at that math you're making $7.69 - $9.61/hr which is half the minimum wage.  You'd make double that just working at McDonalds part time.  If you're using the 50/20/30 rule where 50% gross goes to product, 20% goes to expenses, and 30% is net then you're grossing $67,000/year, $2,680 per machine/year with 25 machines, which means you're averaging $223.33 gross sales per machine per month.  Maybe my math is off and/or realistically you never net 30% of gross sales but that seems more like a location/expenses problem that could be fixed?

[tblake05]

Yup, welcome to the biz.  We prob make LESS than that per hour when you factor in every little we do apart from our normal routine.

[AZVendor]

Formulas do not work in vending.  They are just wild guesses used to suck people into buying machines and locations.  This is a scam friendly industry and unless you just get into vending and muscle through it you won't learn how it really works.  Every location is different, every machine is different, every account is different, and all of those can change week by week.  There is no way to make the money you want at the hours you want to work.  Just no way, no how.  We have all been there and done it.  Anyone that tells you different is either lying or had a single kick-azz account and those barely exist now.

[tblake05]

Betting he deals with numbers at his full time job.  I don't like numbers because formulas can be changed to make the end result whatever you want.

[atracy]

I really appreciate all of the feedback, it's why I came to these forums first before diving in.  I'm super eager to learn not only from courses but from people in the real world through forums (just don't have the time to follow someone in person).  For my full time 20 year career I don't touch numbers at all, I work in visual effects for movies/tv.  For real estate investing EVERYTHING comes down to the numbers.  You analyze every deal, every bank loan, every rental applicant, every single decision is based on numbers.  If you go with your gut or emotions in real estate you'll fail. 

I'm genuinely curious why anyone stays involved in the vending industry if it truly brings in such low numbers?  Do you guys have multiple businesses, are you semi retired and it's just to fill the time with a little extra income?  I've love to know you guys stick with it.

[AZVendor]

Vending only works with large numbers of machines.  It's supplemental income when you are below 60-75 machines.  75 will usually net you a decent income (not 50K though.)  The issues are many but remember that every location costs you money to buy machines for.  There isn't any account that is free when you calculate the equipment investment.  The actual net profit for a large vendor is less than 10% and closer to 5% due to all of the overhead.  You have to do great volume to get good income.  Of course, there are always people who steal from their own company or just underreport their income but that is very dangerous.  I've know many who did that and many others who steal from their accounts that they are to pay an honest commission to.  This is a cash business and it brings the worst out in people - owners and employees. 

I started with 5 soda machines in 1985 and by 1990 I had 60+ machines and had quit my day job - the job I quit when I got 5 machines and realized that I needed that job back.  By 1991 I had a second employee and had put another 100 machines out but all my profit went to pay that employee, pay for the machines I bought and pay commissions to my customers.  I continued that pace for the next two years because that's how good the business was at that time and we were up to 300 machines by 1995.  But, not anymore.  Now there are micro markets taking over vending accounts, fewer and fewer large employers, vending management companies that take over many national accounts.  It's a changed business and will never be what it once was.  The large operators are constantly selling out to even larger operators.  There are fewer and fewer professional vending companies now.  The independent operator that was at my employer was one that I watched as they grew from gumball machines to be a major player in this market.  They just sold out to Canteen, as most large operators eventually do.  This has further eroded what was good about being in vending. 

Edited August 26, 2023 by AZVendor

[atracy]

Thanks AZVendor, that's so interesting.  Makes me even more curious why anyone does it still.  It sounds like there's no point in getting into the vending business at all?

[AZVendor]

Only if you don't need 50K per year.  It's a good business for those who are mechanically inclined, like to talk to people, want to run their own business their own way, not be in the same place every day, and either have other income or don't mind living lean.  There are newbies on this forum all the time.  Most aren't heard from again though some do actually jump in.  We never really know how things are going for those newbies as they probably don't even know how to quantify it.  Then there are lots of members with varying degrees of experience.  Some have passed on (I still miss Roger Morris - we were like cousins) some have just disappeared from the forum so you don't know how they are or if they are. But we are still the most active vending forum on the interwebs and you'll get the best advice here.  I've been here since 2013 but that was toward the end of my career in vending as I transitioned to a real job that paid me better than the cheap vendors I did service work for at the time.  I can't tell you how many stiffed me after the depression hit. 

[atracy]

I appreciate all the honesty and insight.  I feel like the vending business would have been great for me in another life since I grew up on a ranch fixing everything and running the business.  I couldn't be happier with the career I chose though and was lucky that the career I had a passion for pays very well.  My wife is extremely handy and great with people (used to work at Lowes and managed a Sherwin Williams) so I think vending would be really good for her.  Living in Los Angeles $50k is very little after income tax, our gardener makes more than that.  I'll keep analyzing businesses to buy for her to work and hopefully find something to bring in the income we're looking for.  In the mean time you'll probably see me posting more questions to see if I can still make anything work with vending.  Thanks again.

[AngryChris]

I'm sorry if my post may have come a bit harsh (if it did) but you said you didn't have time and already had a good career.  Let me tell you, it CAN be excellent.  It CAN be better than being a doctor.  But it will likely never scale the same way people can scale real estate.  That's something you can grow endlessly.  Although there are huge companies that have been scaling that way, they have done so by buying other vending companies all over the country as AZvendor mentioned.  Those companies already have tens or even hundreds of millions in sales so they can swallow up a 5 million dollar vending company like it's a snack.  

You mentioned how real estate is a about analyzing numbers.  The reason is because rent will often be a fixed amount.  That's your income.  Your expenses may be somewhat predictable.  In vending, although some repair expenses are also somewhat predictable, the income is not.  Although we do analyze numbers to estimate sales initially, we also have to analyze sales on an ongoing basis as well.  Find out what sells and what doesn't.  In other words, it's labor intensive IF you are serious.

Now, as a side hustle, it's not bad.  A lot of people do well with just a few soda machines in specific places.  It's easy while it's small, you can use your own vehicle, etc..  and that's how the YouTube videos mislead you.  As a large serious business, it's also not bad.  You can make a good amount of money but ONLY if you put a LOT of money, TIME, and effort into it.  It's simply not something you can do remotely.

I started in the industry in 2006, but I started my own company in 2010.  I bought 2 snack machines.  It wasn't until the end of 2014 that I decided to finally quit my full time job to focus on vending.  Then, I had maybe 40 machines and a small old step van.  Mind you, I basically reinvested all of the profits up to this point in ADDITION to funding it from my full time job in order to grow. 

About 2015 my step van broke and I bought a 1999 Chevy express box truck.  It has so much more space and allowed me to really stock everything I needed on it to get through the week.  I did t actually need that much vehicle for daily deliveries, but it was a rolling warehouse as I couldn't get product delivered to my house. It was a lot of work to pick product up in the truck and drop it off at home just to load it back in the truck later, so I kept it on the truck instead.  To do everything, at that time, it took maybe 20-25 hours pee week.  I netting about 18k.

By 2019,I had already upgraded to a brand new Ford Transit van.  The box truck was working but I didn't want to work without AC anymore.  I think at this point I had grown to about 150 machines but I was netting about 45k while working about 45 hours per week.  And I could have made it closer to 30-35 hours if I was willing to make some sacrifices.

COVID came and ruined everything. It nearly broke me.alot of companies suffered or went belly up.  I made it out but not without a ton of debt.  A decent sized local vendor sold out and I got the scraps that the big dog didn't want.  And, after landing a lucrative contract, I started making some real money.

Today, I can call a distributor up right this minute and let the owner know I need 10 machines ASAP.  Believe me, if they aren't here Monday, they will be here by the following Monday of it weren't a holiday.  Just to put things into perspective, I pay somewhere in the realm of 120k/year in expenses NOT including the cost of goods sold.  That figure is more than double that.  I work at least 55 hours on any given week.  My wife helps 3 days per week and a part time driver also helps a couple days each week.  And even though I could probably afford to hire a full time driver today, the amount I would realistically have to pay would mean that I wouldn't have the funds to continue growing.  And THAT is why I had to ask you what your goals were.  I'm in decent shape and it's exclusively because of the work I do.  It's not a laid back thing.  In vending, you either want t to do it as a small side hustle with less than maybe a dozen machines and no snacks, or you want to be prepared to be in for the long game where you can get the golden number of about 3 routes (3 full time drivers worth). 

The side hustle can easily make something on the side while barely requiring any other big investments.  Having 3 routes is something you and your wife could manage and it can generate a lot of profit.  If a surgeon ever came here to say he wanted to quit his job so he could work less hours and make more money with vending, I'd tell him he was an idiot.

[tblake05]

@AZVendor @AngryChris guys I think we made him reconsider the vending biz.

[Lbfrozen]

Just when I was getting ready to jump into this one...

Am I too late? Never stopped me before...

tl;dr There is no course, even if you found one. I could be wrong, but I am not wrong.

(I started typing before I saw AngryChris' post, so maybe some restating things.)

As stated from time to time here, some people are in vending (or similar businesses) and do not know how much they are making. Some do not care, as long as the bills are paid (living lean, as AZ said). Sounds weird, but it is true for a few smaller vendors.

Some of us do not net much (and we know it), so, why would we choose to "live lean"? A few reasons: flexibility to make a little bit of extra income around life (e.g. full-time job, family, et cetera); semi-retirees trying to keep busy or stay married (funny saying, but retirees have a high rate of divorce b/c two people are not used to being around each other all day and all night); or, slowly build up assets by reinvesting as much as possible (a common theme on these forums - AngryChris, same with me, many others).

The numbers are different for most of us b/c of several factors: size of vendor business; location of vendor business; vending location variables (large mall w/huge rent/commission vs. rural welding shop breakroom); type of vending (cost of goods for snack ~50% vs. ice cream ~150%).

I love and am educated in numbers, analysis, and analysis-based decision-making. My spreadsheets could conquer nations. I was like Junior with Foghorn Leghorn ("Little Boy Boo"). Number analysis can be powerful in the right situations. However, I learned in life (and vending) to not let numbers analysis dictate decisions where there are a lot of soft variables. I could spend a lot of time on assigning values to the soft variables, but, to what end? The paralysis of analysis is real - pencil-whipping forms all day long results in a lot of data and little work (Work = Force x Distance). At some point, someone has to shovel the ____.

Anyway, rehash, rehash. Vending is right for some, but not most. We are not saying we are awesome - we just worked hard, and avoided enough pitfalls along the way. You may be the next one who jumps right in, as tblake05 said, and gets it right. If so, great people on here will answer questions, if you have some along the way - I, myself, am still learning.

-LB

[atracy]

Thanks again everyone.  We are not looking to build a big company, this is a small part time thing for my wife to do for a few years (maybe 3-5) while the kids are still very young and to basically cover their costs (kids are crazy expensive).  Eventually we would sell the route so she can go back to doing something she loves full time.  Since we live in Los Angeles we have a lot of access to high foot traffic businesses near us.  We'll see what we can get secured in the next 6-12 months.  I'll make sure to report back in on how things are going.  Hopefully I'll be reporting great news on progress and not trying to sell machines 😆.

[AngryChris]

I hope you make us look stupid because of crazy success on your part but the most successful vendors I know, and most here on this forum, are honest and we feel sorry for the ones that come on here asking how to go about making their business profitable after overpaying for poor quality equipment that they placed in poor performing locations and now they understand that they were deceived and mislead by distributors and course sellers alike.