rmorris1953 Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Last month I refurb a AP 6600 jr. Put it on location and everything was working great. I installed a LU 250 Micromech to MDB conversion kit. Mars 24 volt bill validator and a mars 24 volt 4 tube coin mech. Worked flawlessly for a few weeks. Then the customer calls and says it won't accept change. Takes bills vends and no change. So I have him power it down and then power it back up. Now it works. A couple of days later the customer calls him same thing. Once again it all starts working. So now I am concerned that this may happen again. It did.. So I had him trade out the coin mech with a 3 tube mars. Didn't work this time. Bill validator works fine but no change. Takes no change but lights are on behind the flight deck.... I can manually eject coins from switches on coin mech but not from the board. My first guess would be the conversion kit. I did however after about an hour get it fixed.. YEA So I want to leave this open for discussion. Feel free to chime in and take a shot. There is no right or wrong answer. We all learn from mistakes.. Trial and error... It is the hard ones we remember but it also teaches us things we might otherwise not learn. If you are not learning something everyday then you might not be vending. Everyone that chimes in gets a LIKE........ LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorris1953 Posted January 8, 2014 Author Share Posted January 8, 2014 A little more information... The bill validator works with coin mech unplugged The coin mech works with the bill validator unplugged Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CajunCandy Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Well Roger, since I never did mess with one of these fancy LU Micromesh to mdb. I have no answer for you. I was looking at one to put on a AP 6000 to convert it to mdb. So I will pay close attention to all the answers that is given. mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moondog Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 A little more information... The bill validator works with coin mech unplugged The coin mech works with the bill validator unplugged Feel like I'm preaching to the choir here but there'd be no way the validator should work without a coin mech - that's where I would start Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZVendor Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Okay, I'll play. Since you are still using the AP board, was the problem in the option switch settings? One switch is for multivend and one is for bill escrow and I can't imagine how the Lutech kit might have reacted to the settings. Do you have a credit card reader on this? I have seen some Greenwich kits (Lutech resells their kits) need a jumper wire soldered on them when you use a card reader. You also have to have a certain level of eprom in the Greenwick kit when using a card reader. Am I close with any of this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojorhino Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Feel like I'm preaching to the choir here but there'd be no way the validator should work without a coin mech - that's where I would start Couldn't the bill validator work if it was set for a $1 even on all selections? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorris1953 Posted January 8, 2014 Author Share Posted January 8, 2014 Feel like I'm preaching to the choir here but there'd be no way the validator should work without a coin mech - that's where I would start You are correct but in this case the bill validator did work. May have because I had a $2.00 vend set Okay, I'll play. Since you are still using the AP board, was the problem in the option switch settings? One switch is for multivend and one is for bill escrow and I can't imagine how the Lutech kit might have reacted to the settings. Do you have a credit card reader on this? I have seen some Greenwich kits (Lutech resells their kits) need a jumper wire soldered on them when you use a card reader. You also have to have a certain level of eprom in the Greenwick kit when using a card reader. Am I close with any of this? Option switches had no effect.... I didn't know about the jumper wire. Have not had to do anything to get the USA G8 to work correctly. Sorry AZ Not close.... Thanks for input... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moondog Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 So What? You're not going to tell us what you learned? This had better not be something simple like a sticky coin return Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorris1953 Posted January 9, 2014 Author Share Posted January 9, 2014 On the ap 6600 control board pushing the service button and then manually pressing each payout on the board I could see one of the led's on the lu 250 board flicker. That told me that the board (LU250) was getting the signal to payout coins. Except there wasn't any response from the coin mech. Not having a spare board for the LU 250 I decided to disconnect the bill validator and leave it just coins only until I got a replacement LU 250. The instructions for the LU 250 says to make sure when connecting the wires to use the red butt connectors and not the blue ones because the blue ones are not tight enough to make a good connection. My connections were good so that wasn't the problem. After scratching my head I decided just for giggles to replace bill validator. That was it! There isn't anything wrong with the one in there. But replacing it fixed the problem. The only thing I can figure is the old validator was pulling to many amps away from the coin mech and would allow enough amps to operate the coin mech. Who would have figured? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travis7s Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Validator drawing too much current but working properly sounds fishy to me...are you sure it wasn't a connection issue? I would almost try putting the original validator back in again and test again because maybe just reseating all the connections is what fixed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZVendor Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 This sounds a lot like the problem we found with putting the MDB kit in a Rowe 548 food machine. The unstable 24v source was always the problem in that machine and 95% of the 548's wouldn't work with an MDB kit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogcow Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 This sounds a lot like the problem we found with putting the MDB kit in a Rowe 548 food machine. The unstable 24v source was always the problem in that machine and 95% of the 548's wouldn't work with an MDB kit. wouldn't it just make sense to add an auxiliary power transformer to handle the 24v to the board? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorris1953 Posted January 9, 2014 Author Share Posted January 9, 2014 Validator drawing too much current but working properly sounds fishy to me...are you sure it wasn't a connection issue? I would almost try putting the original validator back in again and test again because maybe just reseating all the connections is what fixed it. You could be right.... But I think I will just put it in another vendor that isn't dependent on a kit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorris1953 Posted January 9, 2014 Author Share Posted January 9, 2014 This sounds a lot like the problem we found with putting the MDB kit in a Rowe 548 food machine. The unstable 24v source was always the problem in that machine and 95% of the 548's wouldn't work with an MDB kit. John Wick is who builds these kits. Very smart guy... I would hate to second guess him as to why. I know we are only talking about 3 amps total in this circuit. It very well could have also been a bad bill validator harness. I did change out both validator and harness. It still leaves me scratching my head... Thanks for all that participated I always like sharing what I learn. Sometimes it is the thing you least expect that is the problem.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moondog Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 John Wick is who builds these kits. Very smart guy... I would hate to second guess him as to why. I know we are only talking about 3 amps total in this circuit. It very well could have also been a bad bill validator harness. I did change out both validator and harness. It still leaves me scratching my head... Thanks for all that participated I always like sharing what I learn. Sometimes it is the thing you least expect that is the problem.. Holy Cow Roger - that sounds like one of my fixes, just start swapping out parts until it works. When Walt reads this his head will explode Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poplady1 Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Does the location have a lot of power surges? We had a similar problem and finally our service tech was there as the power came down and then up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snack dude Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Does the location have a lot of power surges? We had a similar problem and finally our service tech was there as the power came down and then up. agree with pop lady. I had a location that I put two pop machines in with similar problems and fortunately I had a friend who had a Dranzit meter that recorded the voltage at the outlet over several days and found that they had all kinds of spikes and brown outs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mission vending Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Holy Cow Roger - that sounds like one of my fixes, just start swapping out parts until it works. When Walt reads this his head will explode Yep, should be able to that mushroom cloud all the way here in Texas when it does happen. Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walta Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 When logic fails me and the parts are available I am not above resorting to parts changer. My thoughts on Greenwich equipment is great ideas but the software is often buggy. This MDB kit has bug in that it will not commutate with InOne CC readers The Rowe 5900 board kit has several versions of bad software on the street, none of which I could make work with a dumb mech and pulse had to replace both with MDB before it worker more than a day. The 5900 product sensors do not work. John had me vinyl the inside because he thought it was too reflective, still a no go. I could not get the MDB to work a 548 reliably. I think it is a software problem. I use 2 deferent power sources with the same results. There are issues with the MDB kit and USA CC readers. If anyone is considering this combo please PM me for more info . Last week I had the opposite problem with an InOne kit. In that the coin mech worked but not the BA. Mine was the BA harness under a cover was not plugged in all the way. One of the things I like best about MDB is everything is in parallel. To me if the power buss was loaded down to the point the mech went OOO, I would think the MDB board would go down also. If the problem reappears try measuring the DC to the coin mech. It is always a bad day for me when the machine starts working and I am not sure what fixed it. Walta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZVendor Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 It is always a bad day for me when the machine starts working and I am not sure what fixed it. Walta Plus one on that. I hate to say I fixed something when I don't know how I fixed it. I then expect the problem will return again, but can only hope the symptoms are more definitive the next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorris1953 Posted January 11, 2014 Author Share Posted January 11, 2014 When logic fails me and the parts are available I am not above resorting to parts changer. My thoughts on Greenwich equipment is great ideas but the software is often buggy. This MDB kit has bug in that it will not commutate with InOne CC readers The Rowe 5900 board kit has several versions of bad software on the street, none of which I could make work with a dumb mech and pulse had to replace both with MDB before it worker more than a day. The 5900 product sensors do not work. John had me vinyl the inside because he thought it was too reflective, still a no go. I could not get the MDB to work a 548 reliably. I think it is a software problem. I use 2 deferent power sources with the same results. There are issues with the MDB kit and USA CC readers. If anyone is considering this combo please PM me for more info . Last week I had the opposite problem with an InOne kit. In that the coin mech worked but not the BA. Mine was the BA harness under a cover was not plugged in all the way. One of the things I like best about MDB is everything is in parallel. To me if the power buss was loaded down to the point the mech went OOO, I would think the MDB board would go down also. If the problem reappears try measuring the DC to the coin mech. It is always a bad day for me when the machine starts working and I am not sure what fixed it. Walta I have not used the kit on Rowes........ Never liked Rowes and I don't think any kit would make them better. I have used them with AP's and Nationals. Except for a few glitches that I was able to overcome they have worked good. Haven't used inone c/c. As far as usa G8 I have installed about 50 and most haven't had any problems. The problem with USA is they pre configure the units and if you want to change something you have to call the tech line. They send all the units out with multi vend enabled. I don't know anyone who uses multi vend. It slows the vendor down. In many applications the customers only have a few minutes for brakes and they are not going to stand and wait for any reader to go back online. I called and had them disable all multi vends on every unit. To answer the question of power. I did not check the power at the outlet... I'm bad... However my customer puts a good surge protector on all of his equipment. I also don't want to be a parts changer it isn't profitable for me or the customer. Sometimes tho there is no choice. In this case had I been a parts changer it would have cost me. I suspected the MDB kit..... But it didn't make any sense. I knew I had a good coin mech because I had tested it prior to going to location. I had decided to leave the bill validator unplugged so at least the vendor would work while I waited for the kit. So I am sitting in truck getting ready to call and order a new kit and I thought just maybe the bill validator. I have seen at times the coin mech's and bill validator's can cause sporadic problems. There has been some good input here.. Glad to see people have participated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZVendor Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 As you know either the coin mech, validator or logic board in an MDB setup can be the culprit if any of those three experience a problem. In my experience with USI CB700's for example, the validator or coin mech can actually take out the board. The problem is that both mech and validator will test ok on the bench, but the CB700 board is still scrambled. In those cases where a new board doesn't fix the problem, I have had to do all three, then bench test the mech and validator to see if either is really bad. A different mech and validator always work fine with the new board. This is, of course, if I have ruled out flickering lights as the cause of the scrambled board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walta Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 I started working at a Rowe distributor. It was not a choice like Rowe or not you are now the Rowe man. I like the InOne boards and CC. not much in there manual but the phone guys understand what is going on. I think the problem is most likely to be found in the BA harness not all the mech wires are getting connected to the greenwick. I have yet to see a Greenwick hardware failure. AZ The light on the Greenwick board should flicker to indicate the it has recived a command from VMC board. PM sent regarding Greenwick G8 problems. Walta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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