Vendergy Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 Got a call from a proprietor, says the machine is vending sodas that are warm! I told him to shut it down. I'll go there and pull the deck out, but have no idea what to look for. I have two new coinco ct48 machines with perfectly working cooling systems...is it possible to put that cooling system into the seaga? If I disconnect or cut the copper tubes to make it fit, will freon leak out? If it did, how can I recharge the compressor? Do I have to get a hvac guy or is this something I can DIY? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falls Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 Got a call from a proprietor, says the machine is vending sodas that are warm! I told him to shut it down. I'll go there and pull the deck out, but have no idea what to look for. I have two new coinco ct48 machines with perfectly working cooling systems...is it possible to put that cooling system into the seaga? If I disconnect or cut the copper tubes to make it fit, will freon leak out? If it did, how can I recharge the compressor? Do I have to get a hvac guy or is this something I can DIY? the deck is self contained, you can see what they look like at this old ebay australia listing http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Seaga-SS3000-Vending-Machine-Cooling-System-Refrigeration-Unit-Working-/290900601327?pt=AU_VendingMachines&_uhb=1&hash=item43bb06e9ef&nma=true&si=lG5p4dggiGLVIYYh3QhmStxtzSY%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557 . The CT48 systems are more than likely a different type, shape, and rating - even if you can get them inside the cabinet, you probably won't be able to get a good seal, and no guarantee they will work wihout freezing up or insufficient cooling. Disconnecting or cutting the tubes will cause the refrigerant to leak out, unless you have the correct tools to do it yourself. Best bet would be to pull the deck and take it to a HVAC guy. It seems a fairly simple removal from what I can see. Disclaimer - I do not have one of these machines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZVendor Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 You CANNOT DIY this type of repair. The Seaga unit may only need a freon charge and a certified vending technician needs to recharge it. If the compressor is bad then again, a certified vending refrigeration tech needs to repair it. This is low temp, so any refrigeration tech who is schooled on dairy cases or vegetable cases or glass door cooler repairs can handle this. Additionally, Seaga uses Chinese or Korean sourced compressors that are not likely to be available anywhere! This requires the refrigeration tech to have to cross reference the compressor or match its line outputs and BTUs to get a compressor that will work in the machine properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vendergy Posted May 10, 2013 Author Share Posted May 10, 2013 Hey AZ vendor and falls, thanks for your responses, I appreciate the help! I pulled the deck and brought it home...the compressor seems to work fine...I plugged it back in and heard the refrigeration noise, started blowing cold air for about 10 minutes, then stopped, the co press or is really hot. When I disconnected the deck cord..the plug is a foreign three prong input so I couldn't plug it into the wall outlet directly. I'm afraid to put an adapter on it because not sure if it's 220v and fry it up. Maybe the thermal overload switch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZVendor Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 Well, it can't be 220V or it wouldn't work in the US. How did you get power to the compressor, only when in the machine? Try Home Depot or an RV parts place as that plug might be similar to an RV plug. If the compressor starts and runs and the fans are all running (condenser and evaporator) and the compressor then turns off prematurely, you could have a bad compressor or it could still be low freon. Is there a low pressure cutout switch on this unit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vendergy Posted May 10, 2013 Author Share Posted May 10, 2013 Az vendor , I called seaga and they confirmed its 110, so I plugged it in and both evaporator fans and condensor fans run great! Blows cool air, but not really cold! Compressor gets hot in about 5-10 mins. The seaga guy says probably low on freon, takes 134a. Can I buy a can and a kit and charge myself? Thanks for the help bro! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mission vending Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 Az vendor , I called seaga and they confirmed its 110, so I plugged it in and both evaporator fans and condensor fans run great! Blows cool air, but not really cold! Compressor gets hot in about 5-10 mins. The seaga guy says probably low on freon, takes 134a. Can I buy a can and a kit and charge myself? Thanks for the help bro! Probably not, those cheap units usually don't have a refill valve. You would have to evacuate, cut, solder and recharge the system and unless you already have the knowledge and tools to do it then it would be cheaper to pay someone to do it or simply buy a complete replacement system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vendergy Posted May 10, 2013 Author Share Posted May 10, 2013 Just went to auto parts store, got a 12 oz can of r134a and a r12-r134a converter adapter...put the whole can in and blows super cold...however, compressor still gets really hot after 5 minutes....and then condenser fan stops...condenser gets hot, and won't restart unless I pull The plug out of the wall and replug it in..sometimes! I'm stumped! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moondog Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 Just went to auto parts store, got a 12 oz can of r134a and a r12-r134a converter adapter...put the whole can in and blows super cold...however, compressor still gets really hot after 5 minutes....and then condenser fan stops...condenser gets hot, and won't restart unless I pull The plug out of the wall and replug it in..sometimes! I'm stumped! Before replacing or fixing that compressor deck, you should consider getting a real machine. You usually can find single priced soda machines in nice shape for around $400 and often times lower. Any repairs or replacements you make are going to cost that much and you'll still have a Seaga. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donut Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 Just went to auto parts store, got a 12 oz can of r134a and a r12-r134a converter adapter...put the whole can in and blows super cold...however, compressor still gets really hot after 5 minutes....and then condenser fan stops...condenser gets hot, and won't restart unless I pull The plug out of the wall and replug it in..sometimes! I'm stumped! You can't just shove 12 oz of r134 (or replacement forma) in and expect it to work. Most soda machine compressors only use around 8 ounces of Freon. Best thing to do is call someone who knows what they are doing, like an HVAC guy who can measure the amount going in. I have a car mechanic do mine since r134 is the same Freon that the A/C system in a car uses..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moondog Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 You can't just shove 12 oz of r134 (or replacement forma) in and expect it to work. Most soda machine compressors only use around 8 ounces of Freon. Best thing to do is call someone who knows what they are doing, like an HVAC guy who can measure the amount going in. I have a car mechanic do mine since r134 is the same Freon that the A/C system in a car uses..... Yep, There's two things in my soda machines I won't mess with, one's the control board and the other's the compressor deck. I can pull them out but there's no way I'm attempting to fix them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mission vending Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 Just went to auto parts store, got a 12 oz can of r134a and a r12-r134a converter adapter...put the whole can in and blows super cold...however, compressor still gets really hot after 5 minutes....and then condenser fan stops...condenser gets hot, and won't restart unless I pull The plug out of the wall and replug it in..sometimes! I'm stumped! Overcharging the system is just as bad as being low on freon, either will lead to premature compressor failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vendergy Posted May 11, 2013 Author Share Posted May 11, 2013 Thanks everyone for the input, I appreciate all the help, I'm gonna try and put the deck back in the machine so the thermostat can work in it's original environment and see how it goes. If my compressor still stays hot, I'll call a tech to diagnose. I'll let you guys know what happens good or bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZVendor Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 You have probably now overcharged it - you can't just blindly dump 12 oz of freon in any machine. You have to graduate it in using a low side pressure gauge. The proper way to do it is to install a line tap and gauges and then start the unit in the machine. The usual low side pressure of a properly functioning unit is 18 - 20 lbs. on the low side. You will find that you haven't solved the problem yet. It also sounds like the condenser fan is weak and if it turns off the unit will short cycle as it overheats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vendergy Posted May 11, 2013 Author Share Posted May 11, 2013 Perhaps, but I did have a guage and used it by watching the gauge slowly move from low to full...never allowing the amount to go over to alert area...only showed 3 kgs tops! Took about 10 minutes with machine running top cool level. But yeah....condenser fan stops after a while...can I replace it with an evaporator fan? Tapping Into the two existing evaporator fans power source so the fan always stays on to cool the condenser? Does keeping the condenser cool help make the co press or cool? There isnt a compressor fan so how does that stay cool? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZVendor Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 Can you post a complete picture of this unit or a couple of pics that show the compressor, the evaporator and the fans, so that we can see what the fans are blowing through. Since one of your pics shows 2 fans, one is probably pulling air through the condenser and one blows air across the evaporator. The condenser will be in the bottom of the machine to transfer heat out of the machine and the evaporator is in the cold part of the cabinet. If either one of these fans run slow or stop, you will have problems. The evaporator fan stopping will allow the evaporator to freeze. The condenser fan stopping will cause the compressor to overheat and turn off. The fans look like they are the same size, etc., but you don't know until you look at their part numbers. You can probably find replacements at Graingers or Johnstone Supply if you have any in your area. The evaporator fan should run all the time, the condenser fan may or may not, depending on how it was wired by Seaga - I've seen both. It is pretty common for those fans to fail or slow down. As to the gauge you mentioned, it is for DIY use in cars only and is not even good for that, not for any kind of precision work. There is no way that even using the setup you had on a car would be charging that system properly either. You have to have the correct equipment for the job. We don't evaluate proper charge by "low" and "full" or "alert". We use proper gauge sets that measure the charge in PSI on the low side of the system. I can assure you the system is likely to be overcharged now and even replacing a bad or marginal fan you have introduced a new problem to the machine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vendergy Posted May 11, 2013 Author Share Posted May 11, 2013 The condenser is on the left , the fan is right behind it, not visible from picture, there are two identical evaporator fans shown in the back, and evaporator is behind the two fans. Got a picture of a tray behind the condenser, filled with dry tar like crap! Second attached picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZVendor Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 This is a typical Seaga setup. The fan on the condenser probably runs all the time as will the two evaporator fans. It is real common for these fans to wear out and I think the condenser fan is bad since you said it will stop running. This is probably all that was wrong to begin with. I can't see where you added freon at, but you probably need to let some out - you just can't do it without the proper gauges on the unit so you'll know when the pressure is correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vendergy Posted May 11, 2013 Author Share Posted May 11, 2013 Here is the photo of the valve I used to recharge. Thanks for the info AZ vendor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZVendor Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 Okay, that is a standard Schrader valve that is put on replacement compressors, so that means this compressor has been replaced before. Since it has this type of valve you can install a standard refer gauge set to measure the pressure. If you buy a gauge set it needs to have an R12/R134 scale. Use the R12 scale and the blue hose on the blue gauge to check low side pressure. After running for a few minutes you should see 18-20 lbs. If it's overcharged you can slightly loosen the fitting at the compressor to bleed gas off. This isn't the legal way to do it (you're supposed to use a recovery tank) but do it slowly and see if you can get down to 18-20. Don't let too much out or you might end up undercharged. Keep in mind that you won't get proper pressure readings until all the fans run properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vendergy Posted May 12, 2013 Author Share Posted May 12, 2013 Replaced the condenser fan...seems to run nice, and blows super cold air...compressor was getting a bit hot after 10 mins of continuous run...it didnt stop because the deck is not in the machine and cool air was just blowing into the air not into a closed environment. I will reinstall the deck Monday and test. Thanks for all the advice, I've learned a whole,lot more about this stuff than before...for sure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vendergy Posted May 14, 2013 Author Share Posted May 14, 2013 Ok, placed the refrigeration deck back into machine and tripped the business' circuit breaker, damn almost burned the place down! I took the deck back home and plugged it in, runs fine! I'm stumped! Could the deck being in the machine cause some kind of grounding short? Condenser fan issue? I hate this machine! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZVendor Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 There is no way for anyone to remotely diagnose whether you have shorted a wire in the machine. You need to give more complete information such as did the wall breaker trip immediately upon plugging the machine in, the cooling unit in, upon starting of the compressor if it was delayed. Before the breaker tripped were any fans running? You could have a short in the thermostat wiring, the wiring on the fan you replaced or in the socket you plug the compressor into. Is it a power strip that tripped or an actual wall circuit breaker? Why do you say you almost burned the place down, was there smoke or fire? From where? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vendergy Posted May 14, 2013 Author Share Posted May 14, 2013 Man, where do I start? Works great plugged in my garage..just the deck..when I got to the location, inserted the deck into the machine, plugged deck cord into machine, plugged machine power cord into wall...trip! Fans moved just a bit...plugged into another outlet...smoke came out of the box where all the wires connect to...right in front of the compressor. At that point, I said screw it..took it home..plugged it into my garage outlet again....worked fine! Weird, checked the box, and some some scorching of some wires...replaced the wires and put it together...it's like when the deck is in the machine it doesn't work...like metal from the deck touching the metal of the machine makes it short. Runs great outside the machine...I would have said the business' outlet was not up to par, but it ran fine before my hot soda problem in the first place, so what has changed? Freon recharge and condenser fan replacement. I will try and plug it in the outlet of business tomorrow with it out of the machine! Sending you the only manual of this machine on the Internet I could find...and it basically is useless to troubleshoot my issue. AZ vendor, you are a god send for helping me! Thanks again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orsd Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 depending on where you are, you might be able to score an older, but more reliable single price machine from Craigslist for under 100. Good manufacturers are: Dixie Narco, Vendo, Royal, USI(not in any particular order.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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