Chard Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 I have a number of AP 113, 6000's, newer USI's, as well as a national 147 that I want to install credit card readers in. all the machines have been or will be upgraded with mdb capability. none of these machines have an easy way to install card readers in the machine without drilling holes. I'm not opposed to drilling holes but everytime I do it I'm never quite happy with the results. I'm kind of interested to hear what sort of solutions others have come up with to installing these readers. The current setup that I am using are just like the card readers issued by USA. new machines like AMS already have cutouts for these readers making installation very simple. I would love to hear about and even see pictures of the different card reader installations others have used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryChris Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 Without getting into too much here, because I only have one reader, I can tell you that you can get a validator mask with a credit card reader on it. It solves the problem of having to drill any holes BUT it only works on machines that have a full cut-out. If your AP 6000/7000's have the traditional door, then the only way to install a reader is to drill holes. You *could* use some sort of an adhesive to keep the reader hooked onto the door but I think everyone on here would agree that you are FAR better off to go ahead and drill some holes and have a reader securely attached to your machine. You could also get a Revision Door from VE but you'll spend $1100 on the door (+ shipping), at least a few hundred extra on refurbished MDB mech and validator, and hours of installation time JUST to get a reader on without drilling holes. The newer USI machines, as well as the AP 113's should have a full cut-out where you can use a credit card mask onto your validator. Of course, you have to have the entire credit card reader hardware to make the mask work and I think this is primarily for Coinco (I think it is Arrow brand reader). The AP 6000/7000 can be difficult because the only places I can think of to mount a reader would be nearly the very top of the door or a little above the coin return... there's almost no where else to mount it. Other than that, I don't know if there's anything else you can do short of getting a revision door, and I would rather you invest in a newer used machine than to do that JUST for a credit card reader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZVendor Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 You don't want to use any of the MDB converters that plug into the machine's coin mech plug because those converters cause very slow change payouts. If you have upgraded your machines to new logic boards then the install is simple. For any machine with no extra cutout (AMS is the only one with one) you can use the template with a USA unit for drilling your holes. If you have done this before and weren't happy with the results then you worked too fast and didn't measure enough or use a level. When doing one of these you must make sure the machine is level first. I always carry a torpedo level about 10-12" long for this purpose. Lay the level along the front and side edges of the CABINET, not the door. Level the cabinet and then you can tape your template on the door. I measure the width of space from trim to trim and put the center line of the template on that spot, then I use the level along one of the horizontal lines to get the template level. You have to do this a couple of times until it's adjusted correctly, then tape it down. Double check again and adjust it if needed. Now you drill your holes and if you don't let your bits wander, your holes should be fine. Get yourself a Varibit for the 1/2" hole so you aren't fighting a large 1/2" bit. You will need long extended MDB harnesses for any door that doesn't have the coin mech mounted on it, such as the AP and National machines. The harness runs up to the top of the machine from the logic board, across the top shelf, across the top of the door and down to the card reader. Make sure that none of the harness above the card reader interferes with the glass side panel when the door is closed. Use the wire ties to secure all the harnesses and keep everything neat. After installation, or better yet prior to drilling any holes, mock up the unit and run a RSSI test to see if you have enough signal strength for the unit to function and then test it with the antenna closed up inside the door and with it on top of the door to see if you need to drill a hole in the top of the door or cabinet to run the antenna cable through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walta Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 Before you update your machine please read the ADA law the way I read it. If you add a CC reader to an older machine all other parts of the machine must conform to the current ADA requirements. I think you will find the key pads or coin & bill opening are outside of ADA requirements. At this point there is little or no enforcement since most of the ADA is enforced by private parties suing, that could change fast. I agree with AZ the MDB converter do not play well with CC readers. Walta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryChris Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 My opinion is to not try to mount a CC reader on an AP 6000/7000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorris1953 Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 AP 6600 and 7600 can have the bezel cut out on the slide. It will allow the full opening for validator bezel. Like AZ said the micromech to md kit has a very slow payout. However you can still use the 110 validator and only change the coin mech to MDB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwi Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 You don't want to use any of the MDB converters that plug into the machine's coin mech plug because those converters cause very slow change payouts. I agree with AZ the MDB converter do not play well with CC readers. Like AZ said the micromech to md kit has a very slow payout. However you can still use the 110 validator and only change the coin mech to MDB. In your guys experience which products would you recommend to convert older equipment to mdb? Are the sem retrofit controllers any good or do you only recommend using the universal control boards that inone & veii sell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZVendor Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 I don't know what the SEM kit is but you want to use an aftermarket upgrade logic board, not just a MDB to micromech converter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwi Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 I don't know what the SEM kit is but you want to use an aftermarket upgrade logic board, not just a MDB to micromech converter. http://www.sem.ca/en/vending-controls/retrofit-controllers/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZVendor Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 http://www.sem.ca/en/vending-controls/retrofit-controllers/ I forgot about that Canadian company. I have see that this is a new device but I have no experience with it. It certainly sounds like it would be a good solution on a single price machine and should work with card readers just as well as any other aftermarket board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryChris Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 I don't know how much those cost, but if I were going to install a CC reader, I would go for an InOne control board OR UCB from Vendors Exchange. There are also a few other boards that will do the trick but I can't think of their names. The cheapest way to go (in theory) is to get an InOne board for about $350. It costs more than the VE UCB ($315) but I believe you can use your existing coin mech and validator with an InOne board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orsd Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Before you update your machine please read the ADA law the way I read it. If you add a CC reader to an older machine all other parts of the machine must conform to the current ADA requirements. I think you will find the key pads or coin & bill opening are outside of ADA requirements. At this point there is little or no enforcement since most of the ADA is enforced by private parties suing, that could change fast. I agree with AZ the MDB converter do not play well with CC readers. Walta I thought it only applied to plumb I. Installs or bolted down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walta Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Please note SEM web site does not list the LSI for use with CC readers. I called SEM and they confirmed that it is not intended for use with cash less devises. I do like the single price to MDB with credit display and credit card. Walta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorris1953 Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 I don't know how much those cost, but if I were going to install a CC reader, I would go for an InOne control board OR UCB from Vendors Exchange. There are also a few other boards that will do the trick but I can't think of their names. The cheapest way to go (in theory) is to get an InOne board for about $350. It costs more than the VE UCB ($315) but I believe you can use your existing coin mech and validator with an InOne board. Even tho the inone allows you to use your existing coin mechs and validators I prefer the VE The board is interchangeable with all other installs. 1 board to carry as a spare. Thats a plus. Second the programing on the VE is easier and in my humble opinion the display looks better. MDB is going to be around a long time. Once and there will be a day dumbmechs 110 v validators will be the way of the past. The big boys are forcing the little guy into C/C readers and the sooner you can switch to mdb the better off you will be. IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryChris Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Even tho the inone allows you to use your existing coin mechs and validators I prefer the VE The board is interchangeable with all other installs. 1 board to carry as a spare. Thats a plus. Second the programing on the VE is easier and in my humble opinion the display looks better. MDB is going to be around a long time. Once and there will be a day dumbmechs 110 v validators will be the way of the past. The big boys are forcing the little guy into C/C readers and the sooner you can switch to mdb the better off you will be. IMO When you talk about being interchangeable.. Are you saying the same board could work for a national 147, ap 7000, ap 113, etc..? Do you know if the ucb will work in an ap 5000? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZVendor Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Here is the list of models that the UCB will work in: Automatic Products 6000/7000, 110 Series, 120 Series, and LCM Series National Vendors 145/146, 147/148, 157/158, and 167/168 Rowe 5900 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorris1953 Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 When you talk about being interchangeable.. Are you saying the same board could work for a national 147, ap 7000, ap 113, etc..? Do you know if the ucb will work in an ap 5000? My understanding is yes.. They have their own wiring but the board is the same. The board from what I understand is the same in any vendor it is in. If the 4,000 or 5,000 had been upgraded to a 6,000 I would think so. Not sure if it hadn't been. Worth checking in to. I have only did a couple so I am not absolutely sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CajunCandy Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 So far I installed two UCB in AP machines. I was scared to death to try by myself, rmorris1953 convinced me I could do it. Did the board exchange on site at location, went well. No calls to VE support team. I even did programming and thought after the first time it was easy. One hiccup, power surges at machine shop, put in battery back up for board and had no problem since. I did call VE about boards and what they told me was same board for all machines just different wire harness. Now it does come with a different display for AP machines and I like it. I will continue to buy the VE board for my machines. I like them! cajun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chard Posted February 19, 2015 Author Share Posted February 19, 2015 So far I've done (5) of the InOne Boards. The last install only took me 20 minutes. I have to say that I like their product, but the cost of drop sensors included in the package is about $100 more than the UCB. I called and asked for a breakdown of comparison between the two units and neither company could give any benefits of either brand. VE is now able to run 110v validators with the addition of the proper harness according to the rep. For my next (5) machines I'm considering going for the VE UCB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Have had far better luck with the VE UCB's over the InOne products, especially when it comes to needing some help from Tech Support. Sometimes InOne can take a day or two to get back to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chard Posted February 27, 2015 Author Share Posted February 27, 2015 What sort of problems have you had with the InOne kits? The other day I had a sensor for the sure vend blocked and resetting it took almost 15 minutes to figure out. I should have just powered it down and restarted it but thought the just running through the diagnostic menu would do it. InOne makes a board for the USI 301Xa series which is a nice option since VE doesn't support that series, but for the price I am thinking the rest of my AP's and Nationals are going to get the VE UCB kits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 What sort of problems have you had with the InOne kits? The other day I had a sensor for the sure vend blocked and resetting it took almost 15 minutes to figure out. I should have just powered it down and restarted it but thought the just running through the diagnostic menu would do it. InOne makes a board for the USI 301Xa series which is a nice option since VE doesn't support that series, but for the price I am thinking the rest of my AP's and Nationals are going to get the VE UCB kits. I've had issues getting some machines to DEX after installation, especially machines I added a InOne card reader on. It's hard to get ahold of their Tech support (which makes it very hard to talk to them while at the machine with the issue). Usually you have to call and leave a message. Vendors Exchange I can call, and usually can talk to someone after a minimal hold time. My techs also claim the Vendors Exchange boards are a bit easier to program during initial setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrVendAlot Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 I am ordering a SEM board to add to an old dixie narco. The machine is up a ton of stairs at an apartment and i dont want to move it. I have had great sucess with upgrading snack machines(installed 8 in one boards). However have done nothing to soda machines. I have a LOT of single price machines that i want to solution for upgrading. Ideally i will get rid of all old harfware. To universalize my route i only install vn2512 bill validators and cf7000 coin mechs. Does anybody have reviews of the SEM boards on single price machines? I just ordered one that I will test on a single price in my garage. Then i will attack this apartment if I suceed. https://www.dsvendinginc.com/p-8734-ds8010a-sem-single-price-to-mdb-conversion-kit-coinsbillscredit-cardsdex.aspx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chard Posted July 10, 2017 Author Share Posted July 10, 2017 You might call Alden at vendors Tech. He has experience with those boards. I do not believe you're able to run credit cards with themSent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryChris Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 Seeing that those kits are specifically labeled with credit card and dex in the description, I find it hard to believe that they wouldn't accept credit cards. I am pretty confident that you would be able to use a credit card reader with that kit, and I am pretty sure you would get cash sales in addition to card sales, but I don't know if or how the machine breaks down sales by specific selections. It seems to me that the kit would only be able to tell you how many sales took place but not which selections they came from. In all fairness, the question remains... should you invest $300+ into a single-price machine so that it will take credit cards or should you invest $300 into a later model machine that is already capable of having a card reader? I have a single-price 501E that would be worth adding a reader to if it wasn't in the basement of a 12 story building. Other than that, most of my single-price machines will hit the scrap yard eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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