mission vending Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Here is a good update story on what going on regarding calorie disclosure: http://www.vendingmarketwatch.com/article/10612753/calorie-disclosure-are-you-prepared Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vendors Tech Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Under what part of the Constitution do they think that they can require calories disclosures on vending products? Article 1. sec 1. of the Constitution says that, "All legislative powers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the United States, which shall consist of a Senate and a House or Representatives." The calorie disclosure rule is beyond the power of the federal government to implement as is shown by the rest of the Constitution. The FDA is an illegal buracracy under the Constitution, because they have the power to make laws. Article 1 sec. 1 above clearly shows that the only body that can make laws is the Congress. Supreme Court precedent in the past has held that Congress cannot delgate their legislative power to ANYONE, including other departments of the government. So: 1. The FDA doesn't have the power to make that rule to start with. 2. Congress can't delegate legislative power to make such rules to bodies like the FDA. 3. Congress doesn't even have the power to make that rule themselves under any article of the Constitution. I wonder who will challenge this law in court? Just to send everyone on a fun quest, who can find where in the Constitution or its supporting amendments, the place where any branch of government can make laws regarding such small aspects of our lives? Yes, I went a legal bend, but I get so tired of the government interfering in small business, and making it more expensive for us to operate. Under the original meaning and actual text of our Constitution which tell THE GOVERNMENT what they CAN and CAN'T do, the new rule, and FDA itself are illegal. Comments? Our main goal here needs to shift from, "let's figure out the least costly way to comply with the government's latest string of useless rules," to, "let's get rid of the illegal rule, and make sure more don't come!" WE THE PEOLE ARE THE GOVERNMENT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shauna Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 I agree 100%. However, you run into the aspect of "is it cheaper to fight this law, or comply with it?" I'm not saying it is right, but a lot of business owners (regardless of what type of business you are in) will look at what it will cost their bottom line. Now, if NAMA would pool their resources to addressing this, it might have a little more traction in court or Congress. Oh, and anytime the government wants to enact stupid legislation that will affect even the smallest areas of our lives, they throw it under the commerce clause. Go figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vendors Tech Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 You're right on the commerce clause. Its either that or the general welfare clause that they use to justify there regulation and spending. You are also right about the small operator. It would kill them to go into a court battle by themselves. but it wouldn't kill anybody if vendors nation wide joined together in the fight. NAMA would be a great venue, but the question is, would they take that on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vendors Tech Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 For those of you who don't know, the section of the Commerce Clause the federal government uses to say that they have the power to make the law in question reads: "To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the indian tribes." That means they can regulate commerce travelling FROM one state TO another. They can't regulate goods, people, businesses, transactions, etc inside of a state. That is "Intrastate" commerce. They can only regulate "interstate" commerce under the Constitution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shauna Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 They can't regulate within a state, but they do anyway. The massive power grab we are seeing these days is only rivaled by FDR during the depression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherlock Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 Just a little follow-up on this subject. Here's an article outlining the current state of this law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snack dude Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 I have decided to plead ignorance until some mindless government tweeb comes and tells me I have to do it. I figure by then I will be dead and it wont matter.......lol Anyone who has had dealings with the VA understands this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparta_Automation Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 I currently have 19 machines on location.....So....I believe I'm good until I place on more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beejaykc aka Munch A Bunch Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 What if I just put a sign on my machines that says something to the effect of "For calorie information, please visit (my website address)"? Then, I could just photo each product calorie information and post it to my website - in an organized manner of course. This would be an inexpensive way to keep up with it I would think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZVendor Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 What if I just put a sign on my machines that says something to the effect of "For calorie information, please visit (my website address)"? Then, I could just photo each product calorie information and post it to my website - in an organized manner of course. This would be an inexpensive way to keep up with it I would think. At this point in time there are no hard and fast rules for implementation of this new albatross the government has put on your back. The FDA still has to evaluate the issue and that is why there is publicity now about it. This is the time that industry representatives from NAMA and the National Restaurant Association are making public comments about it in an effort to influence the final implementation of the rule. There could very well be an option to make the nutrition information available on-site instead of on each machine, or online as most people have a computer or smartphone. The 20 location differential leaves the rule open to being skirted around as no one knows how many accounts you have, or whether you have five different entities that your 100 machines are split up between, leaving only 20 machines per entity. I can guarantee you that most vendors will treat it as "snack dude" mentioned above, waiting it out until they have to do something about it. Many of the small vendors of the world who managed to grow past 20 machines won't even know of this ruling and smart vendors, if pressured from it, will simply sell off their slower accounts or pull them to stay below that threshold. In a public location such as the one you have, you could see this ruling specified in a future contract, but I wouldn't expect anything to happen about this for a year or more. There really is no need to panic yet, but you and all vendors should be aware of it and monitor the situation so that if a ruling comes down from on high, you will know where you stand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerry1973 Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 I found a PDF document from the FDA outlining the plan, but does not give any specifics because the details are not official yet. http://www.fda.gov/downloads/Food/IngredientsPackagingLabeling/UCM249278.pdf I think its a total waste of time and money, because everyone knows that snacks in a vending machine are generally unhealthy, its not like advertising calories is going to change a thing. It will just create an added expense for vending companies, and depending on the details could make some throw in the towel especially very small startup businesses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherlock Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 What if I just put a sign on my machines that says something to the effect of "For calorie information, please visit (my website address)"? Then, I could just photo each product calorie information and post it to my website - in an organized manner of course. This would be an inexpensive way to keep up with it I would think. While I don't agree with the mandate and though I also believe your idea to be a good one, it will never work. Some stuff-shirt will claim that consumers need to have the calorie/nutritional info available to them at time of purchase and too many consumers would not have immediate access to the internet while at your machine (i.e. no access to your site). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 Maybe I'm missing something. Can this not be accomplished by printing up a flyer with the nutritional info. of all products in the machine and slapping it on the side of the machine? I'm not seeing where the enormous time/financial cost comes into play for even the very large vendors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shepherdsflock Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 I think people are making a bigger deal about this than it needs to be. Sure, I think it's yet another step in the march toward a nanny state, but many snack manufacturers are anticipating nose-diving vending business sales and have already begun printing the calorie information on the front of their packages. The snack makers will likely end up resolving this issue for us. They will either continue to spend the extra $.0001 that it costs to print the calorie info on the front of their packages, or they will successfully lobby against the law and get it repealed. As for the nanny state part of the issue, I hate it and I'm with all of you in believing this is the most anti-individual freedom government our country has seen. Our personal liberties are disappearing before our eyes. In 20 years you probably won't even be allowed to buy your own food, the government will deliver it to you with no choice whatsoever on your part what you get to eat and how much. Don't worry, they're going to take good care of us ;( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shepherdsflock Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 What if I just put a sign on my machines that says something to the effect of "For calorie information, please visit (my website address)"? Then, I could just photo each product calorie information and post it to my website - in an organized manner of course. This would be an inexpensive way to keep up with it I would think. No, because not everyone has internet access. Trust me, if they want to enforce this ridiculous law, they will not make it easy for small guys (or even big guys) to just put the info on a website. This isn't about helping people make better nutrition decisions, this is about controling the people of this nation so that the have's can make sure the have-not's remain submissive and subordinate. You must introduce intrusive elements of control into each level of a person's life over a period of time to develop that kind of submissive subordination. Food and drink selection and consumption, fuel usage, property rights and wages are major steps in that progression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerry1973 Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 This isn't about helping people make better nutrition decisions, this is about controling the people of this nation so that the have's can make sure the have-not's remain submissive and subordinate. You must introduce intrusive elements of control into each level of a person's life over a period of time to develop that kind of submissive subordination. Food and drink selection and consumption, fuel usage, property rights and wages are major steps in that progression. absolutely agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherlock Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 Give it another couple years. There will be a scale attachment vendors will have to add to the front of their machines. The scale will include an arm cuff that will calculate BMI. Customers will step on the scale and slip on the arm cuff...if the scale and cuff don't like the results, the machine will go into lock-down mode until a physically fit person steps on the scale and slips on the cuff. So, all you physically fit entrepreneurs out there: start making as many chubby friends as you can. You will make a lot of money by charging a fee to get those friends something from the vending machine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorris1953 Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 Just a thought and my 2 cents..... What if you take 1 item that has the most calories the most sugar the most carbs like a Snickers. Put that information on the vendor and say this is the highest of all calories etc within this vendor. Then find the lowest and say this is the least and most healthy. Everything else falls in between. Since everyone has a cell phone these days you could post a number where they can call and get any additional information for any other product. Products change everyday and it shouldn't be the vendors to relay this to the public. Anyone that has been in the vending knows the product shrinks over time.(Less product more money) Snickers has gotten smaller along with many other products. So will this mean everyday we will have to review each and every product to make sure the size and calories hasn't changed? And if it has then we have to go to every machine and change the information or be fined? It might be cheaper to pay the fine..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walta Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 "Protection from prosecution for inadvertent human error in labeling vending products was mentioned in several comments presented to the FDA during the comment period. A letter from the Americans for Limited Government argued the FDA must make a provision that errors in providing this information not be considered “misbranding of any food,” which is prohibited, among other things, in the Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act. The letter continues to say misbranding food is punishable by imprisonment for up to a year and a $1,000 fine for the first offense and three years imprisonment and a $10,000 fine for the second offense." Unless the FDA changes the rules the penalty for a second offence is 3 year and $10,000.00 At this point rules have not been made public and we are all just guessing how bad they will be. The saddest part is that the FDA can rewrite the rules any time they please. Walta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TKK Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 So is this gonna happen or what? http://newsfeed.time.com/2013/12/30/coming-soon-to-ruin-your-midafternoon-vending-machine-snack-calorie-counts/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walta Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 It is going to happen. The only questions are how difficult and expensive it will be to comply. Also to be decided how much money the government will spend enforcing the law and how big the penalties will be. In the 80s when they regulated Freon. The government set very high penalty and prosecuted a few cases against some very small business owners, sent them to jail and fined them into bankruptcy. After they made their point in a very public way the government is now content to not spend any time or money on enforcement and keep the law on the books so when they decide it is time to get someone they can find something to beat them into submission. Walta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TKK Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Oh well I only have 19 full size machines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spdydre Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 why not just turn the product around? MOst people know whats in the columns already by look anyways and some have their name printed on the back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beejaykc aka Munch A Bunch Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Can we start talking about HOW to comply.....not IF. We all know that eventually we will. Let's not argue about why not to comply. Let's start talking about how. I would really like to do it on my revamped website. I'd also like to know what the actual rules are to comply. If the law says calorie counts themselves must be displayed on the machine, this will make compliance an issue for 99% of all vendors the minute they make a product swap or a manufacturer makes a product change. But if the rule will be that we need to provide access to this information....then the website should comply. Don't beat me up about internet access - your argument that not everyone has access to the internet doesn't hold water in this discussion with me. My signs will say something to the effect "for more nutritional information about the products being sold from this machine, please visit mywebsite.com. Information about healthy eating can be found at thefederalguidelines.com" Now, I'm not nutritionist........but I also don't believe that calorie count alone doesn't make for an unhealthy product. So I suspect that we will be required at some point to display more than calorie counts. The question for this group is how. Not why, not when, not if. How. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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