Here we go again. sighhhhh

[elvin]

Vendors Tech -

 

On the Seaga, if everything else is working correctly, you could run power straight to the compressor and wire a regular thermostat in, that way the board is not controlling the compressor and would resolve that problem.

[AZVendor]

Alden, I have had this exact problem with an Office Deli machine that I put a new compressor on.  If the compressor turns on when you perform the relay test then you know the relay is good.  If the condenser fan is on all the time then you know there is 110v to the compressor wiring (in Seaga machines only). 

 

Does the machine display the correct current temperature?  If the temperature displayed is obviously too low then the sensor is bad.  If this is an Office Deli machine or a blue refrigeration relay machine then it's possible that you have reversed the connectors between the temp sensor and the relay, but since the relay test works that probably hasn't happened. 

 

Have you checked your temperature settings in the logic board?  The Office Deli temp settings are in the menu marked by tS.xy where x represents the current state of the refrigerated zone being measured, either 1 for ON or 0 for OFF, and y represents Celsius or Fahrenheit.  Press the MENUS button on the logic board and scroll with the 9 or 10 keys to this mode.  In this mode you can do the following tasks:

Press 1 to turn the zone ON.

Press 2 to turn the zone OFF.

Press 3 to set the lower range of the temperature setting.  Press two digits to choose the lower setting.  36 degrees F is optimal.

Press 4 to set the upper range of the temperature setting.  Press two digits to choose the upper setting.  42 degrees F is optimal.

Press 5 to select a display in Celsius.

Press 6 to select a display in Fahrenheit.

 

When finished with the temperature settings you can allow the machine to exit the MENUS function after 30 seconds or use the 9 or 10 keys to scroll to the END menu item and then press any button other than 9 or 10 to exit the service mode. 

 

You will now have to wait for the normal cooling system delay to see if the board will start the compressor.  If the compressor still won't start then try the temperature setting procedure again and verify that you set everything correctly as it's very easy on this machine to mess it up.  If it still won't start then ohm out all wires from the cooling unit to the logic board including the temp sensor and relay wiring.  If all wires ohm out okay then you will need a new board.

[rmorris1953]

Personally I dislike most of the new vendors coming out.... Crane is on top of that list with all the electronics and USI is right up there... My favorites are AP 113, D/N 501-E, Vendo 721, and the BevMax. Prefer to stay away from any cold food....

 

I use to drink Coors but after I started drinking Bud, Coors is the only thing I can stand at all. Plus I like those horses...         

[rmorris1953]

Vendors Tech -

 

On the Seaga, if everything else is working correctly, you could run power straight to the compressor and wire a regular thermostat in, that way the board is not controlling the compressor and would resolve that problem.

 

When replacing temp controls to manual controls I use a ETC from Graingers. It is a electronic temp control that comes with a 6 ft probe and can be set as a standalone. Temps can be set for example -20 degrees to + 100 . You set it for 34 and then you set the cut in for what ever you want. Set it for 8 degrees and the compressor will come on at 42 and off at 34. 

 

National combo temp control are junk $75 for a new... 

 

I have also used these on National 430 coldfood bypassing that triac...

 

http://www.supplyhouse.com/Ranco-ETC-111000-000-Single-Stage-ETC-Temperature-Control-w-Sensor-120-240V-Input-Includes-8-Cord

[AZVendor]

Here are photos of the new models from Seaga that look like you will hurt your back trying to use.

 

 

[Vendors Tech]

Alden, I have had this exact problem with an Office Deli machine that I put a new compressor on.  If the compressor turns on when you perform the relay test then you know the relay is good.  If the condenser fan is on all the time then you know there is 110v to the compressor wiring (in Seaga machines only). 

 

Does the machine display the correct current temperature?  If the temperature displayed is obviously too low then the sensor is bad.  If this is an Office Deli machine or a blue refrigeration relay machine then it's possible that you have reversed the connectors between the temp sensor and the relay, but since the relay test works that probably hasn't happened. 

 

Have you checked your temperature settings in the logic board?  The Office Deli temp settings are in the menu marked by tS.xy where x represents the current state of the refrigerated zone being measured, either 1 for ON or 0 for OFF, and y represents Celsius or Fahrenheit.  Press the MENUS button on the logic board and scroll with the 9 or 10 keys to this mode.  In this mode you can do the following tasks:

Press 1 to turn the zone ON.

Press 2 to turn the zone OFF.

Press 3 to set the lower range of the temperature setting.  Press two digits to choose the lower setting.  36 degrees F is optimal.

Press 4 to set the upper range of the temperature setting.  Press two digits to choose the upper setting.  42 degrees F is optimal.

Press 5 to select a display in Celsius.

Press 6 to select a display in Fahrenheit.

 

When finished with the temperature settings you can allow the machine to exit the MENUS function after 30 seconds or use the 9 or 10 keys to scroll to the END menu item and then press any button other than 9 or 10 to exit the service mode. 

 

You will now have to wait for the normal cooling system delay to see if the board will start the compressor.  If the compressor still won't start then try the temperature setting procedure again and verify that you set everything correctly as it's very easy on this machine to mess it up.  If it still won't start then ohm out all wires from the cooling unit to the logic board including the temp sensor and relay wiring.  If all wires ohm out okay then you will need a new board.

The one time I did get a hold of Seaga, I went through all those settings with them.  Everything was the way it should be, and the temperature sensor is displaying the correct temperature.  I actually did get everything to come on right after I replaced the compressor.  The evaporator fan runs all the time as it should.  The temp got down to around 37, and I thought it was working alright.  It stopped cooling by the next day, and I haven't had any luck since then.  I am going back Monday, and I may try the mechanical thermostat idea.  I hadn't thought about that till now.  It would be rather difficult, as I would have to make some significant wiring changes.  Thanks for the pictures.

 

And Kiwi....  I don't dislike USIs just because they're USIs.  I don't like Crane's Merchants either.  They're just poorly made.  I'll always point out a poorly made machine when I see one, even if its made by a company I like, and sell for.  I sell for Crane, and believe me, I'm on them big time about their rapid quality decline in manufacturing, and I'm not hesitant to point out that it is due to the fact that they bought out most of their competition, and then grew lax in their quality diligence.

[rmorris1953]

They (Crane) had a bargain priced GPL that was a good cheap vendor and now they don't even offer that.... AMS has some pricing going for them but their electronics suck.

[rmorris1953]

It's too bad someone don't just design a simple 4 price bottle vendor. Bring back the Mars four price mech and a simple stack vendor for the small operator.... Same way with a snack vendor. No electronics just a 4 price mech and some relays.. 

[kiwi]

Personally I dislike most of the new vendors coming out.... Crane is on top of that list with all the electronics and USI is right up there... My favorites are AP 113, D/N 501-E, Vendo 721, and the BevMax. Prefer to stay away from any cold food....

 

I use to drink Coors but after I started drinking Bud, Coors is the only thing I can stand at all. Plus I like those horses...         

Those are some quality machines on you favourites list.. I would never picked someone with such exquisite taste in vending machines to be a Coors drinker... 

 

I thought the only other person who drank Coors besides moondog was Ice Cube.. maybe you could start a Coors Club together?

 

You would just need to confirm that Ice Cube & Moondog are not the same person.. they are both from California so they could well be??  ​ 

[mission vending]

 

You would just need to confirm that Ice Cube & Moondog are not the same person.. they are both from California so they could well be??  ​ 

It wouldn't be the first time we have seen multiple identities around here.....

[AZVendor]

Alden, double check the refrigeration setting once more. If they changed for some reason you wouldn't know it. I have also had to replace the blue relay before as well. It acted like it would work in relay testing but when it came time for the board to turn on a normal cooling cycle the relay wouldn't work.

[kiwi]

I'll admit that SOME of USI's equipment is "ok".  However, unless someone is totally strapped for cash and can't afford a better machine, they are not worth the potential headache in my mind.  Parts are exorbitantly expensive for those machines, few full line vending companies use them as the staple of their routes (if they use them at all), and they're just generally a cheaply made machine. 

 

I know that some people love them, or some of the models anyway.  That's okay I guess, I'm glad not everyone got burned on them.  I've worked on ones from almost every model series, never even used them in my route, and the personal experience that I gleaned from dealing with USI's "issues", brought me to the point where I am now where I do not feel like they are (generally) a good machine brand to buy.

 

I would leave it at this...  If you want to buy a USI, DO NOT buy ANYTHING with refrigeration in it, as most of the weirdest problems are with those machines.  Snack machines are easier to work on, and there are less parts there, making them cheaper to work on as well.

 

But seriously, is there anyone out there who has used a Dixie 501E and a USI soda of any model, that would choose the USI over the 501E if given the choice when buying?  And I mean from a mechanical and reliability standpoint, not a size, capacity, or versatility standpoint.

 

Hi mate, I just wanted to say I agree totally with your above statement. 

 

I am not a fan of the USI's drink machine line & of the few Satellite CB300 that I do have I would definitely say they are not my favourite machines.. I don't own  any CB500 or CB700 drink machines. (even though moondogs thinks I do)

 

I do like their snack machine though especially their later models with the GVC2 controller.. I have quite a few of the Mercato line that are bordering the $100K  mark in sales & have never had any issues (touch wood) but even if they did they have well & truly paid for themselves.

 

I do value you opinion though & wanted to thank you for talking me into choosing the MEI7000 over the Coinco Guardian.. It was the best move I ever made!  

[rmorris1953]

LOL I meant can't stand coors.... They changed the formula many years ago and screwed it up.... Also it don't vend well....... Sorry for the confusion...

[CajunCandy]

Bud tastes like those ##### ######### Oysters only worse. Never could stand the taste of a Bud.

 

I'm pretty sure moondog will back me up on Coors Lite.

 

ApplePie Moonshine next.

 

Anybody wanna talk about mud boats?

[VitalityVending]

I didn't know USI wasn't any good! I was about to buy a couple new beverage machines.

[mission vending]

I didn't know USI wasn't any good! I was about to buy a couple new beverage machines.

 

Some people hate 'em others, like me, ACTUALLY have decades of real experience with over 100 USI machines that have generated MILLIONS of dollars in sales and like SOME of them. Others I wouldn't give a wooden nickel for...

 

Now lets wait for the haters to jump in a give me a beat down....

[kiwi]

I didn't know USI wasn't any good! I was about to buy a couple new beverage machines.

Which model USI's are you looking at buying & are they brand "new" or refurbished?

[MrByte]

I for one will welcome our new Antares wielding masters. ;-)

[AngryChris]

I'll admit that SOME of USI's equipment is "ok".  However, unless someone is totally strapped for cash and can't afford a better machine, they are not worth the potential headache in my mind.  Parts are exorbitantly expensive for those machines, few full line vending companies use them as the staple of their routes (if they use them at all), and they're just generally a cheaply made machine. 

 

I know that some people love them, or some of the models anyway.  That's okay I guess, I'm glad not everyone got burned on them.  I've worked on ones from almost every model series, never even used them in my route, and the personal experience that I gleaned from dealing with USI's "issues", brought me to the point where I am now where I do not feel like they are (generally) a good machine brand to buy.

 

I would leave it at this...  If you want to buy a USI, DO NOT buy ANYTHING with refrigeration in it, as most of the weirdest problems are with those machines.  Snack machines are easier to work on, and there are less parts there, making them cheaper to work on as well.

 

But seriously, is there anyone out there who has used a Dixie 501E and a USI soda of any model, that would choose the USI over the 501E if given the choice when buying?  And I mean from a mechanical and reliability standpoint, not a size, capacity, or versatility standpoint.

 

Let's be honest here.  How much USI equipment is out there?  How many OLD USI 301x models are out there and STILL making money?  They have their problems, but machines that old have problems.  I have MORE problems out of my 501 can machines than my USI snack machines.  The only thing is that it usually costs $0 to fix my dixie narcos (due to jammed cans) but it may cost me $50 to fix a USI (with a bad part).  I probably own 15+ USI equipment and I have NOT replaced a control board or a motor on any one of them.  Most of them are 15+ years old.  Just coin mech and validator repair.

 

I don't know why people hate on USI so much.  Oh and parts are expensive?  Honestly... I want to say that parts are probably 10-20% more expensive than what a large operation such as Vendor's Exchange would sell them for.  Yeah... they aren't "cheap" but you don't get killed either.

 

I have one CB-500 that has been on location for 3 years and has never given me any problems at all.  I have a 3129 that has been at the same location for 3+ years and it has never given me any problems.  I have a POLYVEND 6632 that has been on location for 4 years and has issues with the MAKA (or perhaps a board issue) but, other than that, it has given me NO problems.  I have several 3014's out in the field that have given me NO problems, except one that had a single selection priced at $0.09 for pastries.... I don't know how that happened though.  I have SEVERAL 501 T's that give me headaches with their gummed-up motors, bad switch clusters, bent rotors, etc... but to be fair.... those machines have probably vended a crap-load of product before those motors/parts failed.  Still though, my USI equipment has been quite reliable.

 

All in all.. I believe USI deserves to be up there with Royal, Dixie Narco, AMS, National, AP, Vendo, and probably a few other brands that I have forgotten to mention.  

[moondog]

Let's be honest here.  How much USI equipment is out there?  How many OLD USI 301x models are out there and STILL making money?  They have their problems, but machines that old have problems.  I have MORE problems out of my 501 can machines than my USI snack machines.  The only thing is that it usually costs $0 to fix my dixie narcos (due to jammed cans) but it may cost me $50 to fix a USI (with a bad part).  I probably own 15+ USI equipment and I have NOT replaced a control board or a motor on any one of them.  Most of them are 15+ years old.  Just coin mech and validator repair.

 

I don't know why people hate on USI so much.  Oh and parts are expensive?  Honestly... I want to say that parts are probably 10-20% more expensive than what a large operation such as Vendor's Exchange would sell them for.  Yeah... they aren't "cheap" but you don't get killed either.

 

I have one CB-500 that has been on location for 3 years and has never given me any problems at all.  I have a 3129 that has been at the same location for 3+ years and it has never given me any problems.  I have a POLYVEND 6632 that has been on location for 4 years and has issues with the MAKA (or perhaps a board issue) but, other than that, it has given me NO problems.  I have several 3014's out in the field that have given me NO problems, except one that had a single selection priced at $0.09 for pastries.... I don't know how that happened though.  I have SEVERAL 501 T's that give me headaches with their gummed-up motors, bad switch clusters, bent rotors, etc... but to be fair.... those machines have probably vended a crap-load of product before those motors/parts failed.  Still though, my USI equipment has been quite reliable.

 

All in all.. I believe USI deserves to be up there with Royal, Dixie Narco, AMS, National, AP, Vendo, and probably a few other brands that I have forgotten to mention.  

I think that many of us don't like USI for their low cost approach to building a machine.  Will they make money, you bet they will but when you start looking at how they're made compared to an AP 7600, there's no comparison.  That said, the 7600 does set a high bar for durability.

 

Ps. The later model AP's weren't built that well either.

[AngryChris]

I think that many of us don't like USI for their low cost approach to building a machine.  Will they make money, you bet they will but when you start looking at how they're made compared to an AP 7600, there's no comparison.  That said, the 7600 does set a high bar for durability.

 

Ps. The later model AP's weren't built that well either.

 

I totally agree with you.  An AP-7600 is a superior machine but it's not fair to compare everything to a 7600.  I believe my royal can vendors are superior to my dixie can vendors but I prefer dixie narco simply because EVERYONE knows how to fix them and EVERYONE has parts for them.

[Vendors Tech]

I totally agree with you.  An AP-7600 is a superior machine but it's not fair to compare everything to a 7600.  I believe my royal can vendors are superior to my dixie can vendors but I prefer dixie narco simply because EVERYONE knows how to fix them and EVERYONE has parts for them.

 

I will always defer the right of final judgement on any machine to the people that operate them.  In your case, you like USI.  Some people do, many don't.  For me, the lack of parts availability and their higher cost alone, regardless of whether its 10% or 40%, would be enough to keep me from ever putting them on a route.  A USI doesn't make more money than an AP or National, and if an AP is cheaper to repair and maintain, you will win in the long run by not using USI.  I also need to point out that a Dixie 501T is WAY different than a 501E.  I don't care for the 501T myself.  Its not a "terrible" machine, but they fell short of the mark with it.  The 501E was much better, and is one of the best, if you know how to operate it and shim it properly.  Product doesn't usually get stuck in a 501E unless you shim it wrong, or load it wrong.  The P series Dixies don't even require shims, improving even more on the 501E model style.

 

All manufacturers had lemon machines.  That's not the only thing I look at when I decide to advise people away from a manufacturer.  I look at parts availability, parts cost, tech support availability (all those are terrible with USI), ease to service (USI refrigeration decks and satellite machines are a nightmare to service), ease of operator use, overall machine build quality, thought put into machine design and engineering, and so on.  As a technician, I have an everyday first hand opportunity to assess machine reliability based on the above criteria. 

 

If you can make USI work for you, great!  I want to see vending operators make money.  If they can do that with or without my technical input, then that is fine with me.  I'm not making any money off of my opinion.

[Feral Vending Mechanic]

I have a POLYVEND 6632 that has been on location for 4 years and has issues with the MAKA (or perhaps a board issue) but, other than that, it has given me NO problems.

I have a POLYVEND 6632 that has been on location for 4 years and has issues with the MAKA 

I have a POLYVEND 6632 that has been on location for 4 years and has issues with the MAKA 

I have a POLYVEND 6632 that has been on location for 4 years

I have a POLYVEND 6632 that has been on location

POLYVEND

 

 

*runs screaming for the hills, muttering something under his breath that sounds suspiciously like Miley Cyrus' "Wrecking Ball"* 

 

In all seriousness, I smell what you're stepping in. USIs are OK machines. Better than some, worse than others. I'd take a Rowe 4900 over a USI any day of the week, though. Even a three board one. ( Maybe. Crap. I'd have to think about it. ) And yes, the AP 7000 series does set a very high mark for durability. Until some jackass comes along with a welding torch... 

[AngryChris]

As a technician, I have an everyday first hand opportunity to assess machine reliability based on the above criteria. 

 

And as an operator/route driver, I have first hand opportunity to assess these machines on a daily basis.  Don't get me wrong, older USI machines are probably near the lower level of machine quality when compared to that of AP, National, Dixie Narco, Royal, etc... (all major name brands), but my point is that most USI machines are just about as reliable as the other brands.  All I am saying is that USI machines don't break down as much as you seem to imply (at least I feel like you are implying that they break down a lot) and they certainly don't belong in the same group of seaga, antares, or any of those.

*runs screaming for the hills, muttering something under his breath that sounds suspiciously like Miley Cyrus' "Wrecking Ball"* 

 

In all seriousness, I smell what you're stepping in. USIs are OK machines. Better than some, worse than others. I'd take a Rowe 4900 over a USI any day of the week, though. Even a three board one. ( Maybe. Crap. I'd have to think about it. ) And yes, the AP 7000 series does set a very high mark for durability. Until some jackass comes along with a welding torch... 

 

Lol!  I'd like to hear the story on that one.  Yes, it's a polyvend and it has given me no problems.  I just acquired 2 rowes and I do not understand them at all, but they seem to be well-built.  Trust me, when the board on either of the two polyvends that I own go out, the cabinet is going straight to the scrap yard.

[mojorhino]